7 in dog years, 100 in columnist
years -
March 22, 2001 - Chris Jones
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed
within this column are those of the participants and the
moderator, and do not necessarily reflect those of the
GIA. There is coarse language and potentially offensive
material afoot.
What, no cake?
Don't say we didn't warn you.
Three hundred and sixty five days ago I posted this. Nobody's more surprised than me that I've
lasted this long, but I'd like to take a minute to thank the GIA
staff for selecting me in the first place, and for backing me up ever
since. It has been, is, and will continue to be a real honor to work with
these folks. I also greatly appreciate you guys, the readers and writers -
it's your column, I'm just managing it. But if you hadn't put up with me
for this long, there wouldn't be much for me to manage, and I hope I can
keep things at least as entertaining in the future as they have been in
the past, for whatever that's worth.
Anyway, since today is the biggest bout of egotism I've allowed myself
in a while, here's a few mementos of the occasion. First off, we have my
original DA application:
stage 1 is my public application and my answers to
the RPG quiz, while
stage 2 was my sample column. Some of the answers are
cringeworthy to say the least, and obviously I missed a few answers on the
quiz, but overall I think it was a decent enough app. As for the col...
hell, I still like that one, no apologies there.
And just for good measure, here's a recent photo of yours truly. I don't think
it's the best picture I've ever taken (mostly due to the odd way I'm
leaning back) but nobody likes their own photos, and it does give you a
pretty good idea of what I look like.
And that's all I got for now on the subject - thanks again to everybody
who put up with me this long, and let's see if Year 2 turns out as good as
Year 1.
Onward.
| Denied acceptance by
the mainstream |
| It's an interesting idea to use video games to teach
english, but not a very good one. first, most RPGs
are written in Japanese and translated to English, and
usually have a lot of translation errors (unless its
translated by Working Designs). Second, lots of
characters speak with dialects of in unusual ways,
other than mainstream American English.
More importantly, I doubt you'll be able to get
teachers to accept games as a reasonable form of
expression. I have a hard time getting my english
teachers to accept science fiction/fantasy as actual
writing and not just crap, let alone sci-fi/fantasy
based VIDEO GAMES. In addition, I doubt that any
teacher will allow you or require you to have a
console system and bring video games into school to
work with. Even if you just read from scripts, you
miss a lot of what the dialogue refers to without
being able to actually see what's going on.
So my final answer is a firm NO, video games will not
ever be recognized as a viable way of teaching
english.-Saragar
|
Come on, it's not quite as bad as that, is it? Yes, given that most RPGs these days are translations of Japanese work, it makes more sense to ask the question in terms of using games to teach Japanese. And yes, just about all teachers these days will have a problem viewing games as anything but a time waster that stops kids from doing what they should be doing: homework. But our generation is slowly making its way into the classrooms from the other side, and it is the case that many people are inspired to learn Japanese precisely because of RPGs. (True, they nearly always learn that to actually learn it, they need to take actual Japanese courses, but still...) Basically, the idea at the moment is stillborn, but I'm not convinced that it'll never happen.
| You can't finish the
assignment without beating the Hammer Bros. |
| Hey Chris,
It isn't inconceivable that a game could be used as one of the standard
texts for a literature or mythology class (RPGs are, after all, a form of
story-telling). It's still unlikely.
It wouldn't be unreasonable to expect students to fork over the cost of a
game, but it would certainly be too much to expect them to obtain the
hardware. You'd also be expecting them to play the interactive portion of
the game, just to get at the story:
"Sorry, Dr. Jones, but I couldn't finish my paper because my little brother
stayed the weekend at his friend's house and I just can't get the hang of
those buttons."
Heh. Yeah, right. There are a lot of people in the world who would rather
undergo surgery without anaesthetic than do what we do for fun: pay for the
privilege of staring at a TV for hours, pushing random buttons.
--DarkLao
P.S. All of which is rather remarkably assuming that any game tells such an
important story that it serves as a better example for the class than all of
a few thousand years worth of written works. I maintain: Heh. Yeah, right. |
There are a lot of people in the world who hate and despise games, but that proportion is noticeably lower among younger generations. As I see it, games used as a teaching tool would only work in an environment where people realized that one teaching technique won't work for everyone - some people learn through lectures, some people learn through books, and some people might respond better to games, to being challenged in other ways by the material. Again, it's an idea that's on the fringe, but not completely laughable.
| Edutainment Oui! |
| Chris,
I sent in a letter on a variation of this topic a while back, but I'm pretty
sure it never got put up.
I had the idea a couple of years ago for a video game that taught foreign
languages to kids, educational software cleverly disguised as an entertaining
RPG. The basic plot was that a man goes on a business trip with his wife
to another country. While there, his wife is abducted (ala "The Bouncer")
and he has to track her down. The problem is, he has a very limited
knowledge of that country's language, and with only a phrase book as
his guide, he must learn as much of the language as he can, and as fast
as possible, in order to get his wife back. I was thinking something
along the lines of Shenmu meets Resident Evil meets The Bouncer.
There could be varying difficulty levels (you could start the game
with, or without the phrase book); voice actors could be supplied,
so that pronunciation is clear. The plot could of course be changed,
but the basic idea is that, yes, video games could be used to teach
language, as well as grammar, and I think that, done right, it
could be a very entertaining mode of education.
But this is coming from someone who learn the bulk of his Japanese from
subtitled anime.
-Banjax. Nihongo ga amari hanase masen. And it's the truth, too. |
It's not a bad idea, actually, and it avoids the pitfalls of other edutainment software, where the gameplay is eventually decimated by the game's desire to cram the player's head with info. In much the same way hard info about physics or history or computers can be lightened with humor, a good mix of foreign language could be worked into a game. Another possibility might be to have all the inhabitants of a foreign country speaking an unknown language, instead of everyone... but the point is, there are possibilities here.
| Edutainment Non! |
| I think the whole idea sounds like a contrived attempt at
working gaming into a paper, but you have to be what you are.
The entire idea of "edutainment" is ludicrous. Try to trick
kids into learning by having them play educational games. All kids do
with the stuff is make do until they can find a real game. They learn
less than they would any other way, and enjoy the experience less than
playing a real game.
Using RPG's as a tool to teach kids grammar is only going to
happen in a society so remarkably sad that it's the only way it can
get its children to read. If this happens, I think it's time for God
to separate the sheep from the goats and end it all quick.
- Zen, awaiting the rapture
|
Yep, I can't deny that I always avoided edutainment software like the plague - not even Carmen Sandiego wasn't that interesting to me. If I remember right, even Nintendo's few edutainment titles for the NES (like Donkey Kong Jr. Math) were nothing more than an attempt to disguise the system as something other than a straight games machine.
But at the same time, making the argument that games (or comics, or science fiction, or even regular novels, once upon a time) will lead to the destruction of civilization is complete bunk - mediums of expression change, and keep doing so. Education needs to keep up, or it's worse than useless.
| So that's what
he's been up to... |
|
I'm surprised that with all the discussion of of FFX's Tidus and who he resembles
no one has pointed out the obvious: he's clearly patterned after GIA co-founder
Andrew Kaufmann. Swap
out the sword for a guitar and give him an REM album instead of a blitzball
and you're all set; I would assume this is Square's tip of the hat for the GIA's
excellent investigative snooping with their way-early FFIX scoop. Although I
always had AK pegged for better fashion sense...
And imagining RPGs used as English teaching tools isn't so far-fetched. I've
already picked up snippets of (poor) Japanese and have taught myself to read
katakana, hiragana and snatches of kanji as I've waddled awkwardly through
text-intensive gotta-have-em-early imports like Final Fantasy VIII/IX, Chrono
Cross/Trigger and Megaman Legends 2. Although so far I've only known one
person who claimed to have learned to read English through RPGs, and he was
less than, erm, well... less than literate. A cautionary tale, or merely a failed pioneer?
Your ruminatin' pal,
J. Parish
PS, are you ever going to reveal your middle name to your loyal fans?
My money is on something like Octavio or Oscar, which would be cool because
then you could write your name as c.o.jones. It's one thing to claim to be ballsy,
but another matter entirely to have the name to back it up. |
You'll have to excuse JP, folks, he's just a wee bit infatuated, which leads him to making bizarre free-associations rather than being his usual razor-sharp, bitter self. But we should all be so lucky to be in a great relationship with a cute girl... wait, I am that lucky, so nuts the rest of you who aren't.
As you say, it's very much the case that RPGs (or manga, or anime) have often been the inspiration for people to pick up Japanese, but at the same time, it's clearly not sufficient in and of itself to learn the language, possibly because they were never designed to be a complete teaching tool. On the other hand, there are guys like the next letter writer, who we'll get to in a minute.
As for my middle names, nope, neither one starts with "o", and good thing too, because that would just get weird after a while. I can say that "coldjones", my net handle, is almost entirely comprised of my initials, and since you already know o's not one of them, you've got a solid starting point. Tell you what, tho - in the unlikely event I'm still around in another year, I'll state my full name for the record.
| It worked for this guy *Metal Gear 1 spoilers* |
| When I was a kid, the english class in my country
(Colombia) used to be the coolest, because we didn´t payed any attention
at all: we just looked trough the pretty pictures at the english books
and laughed at the usual dorks that english teachers are (you´ll explode
laughing if someday you could attend an english class in an elementary
school at any country that does not speak english, but why would anyone
want to do that?) Of course I didn´t learned any english in my school, until
the day I met my first "serious" RPG: Legend of Zelda in the Super Nes...
Now, don´t get me wrong, I played trough the Coleco, the Atari 2600, the
Nintendo... but what english do you need to know to beat those games? I
only regret about the Ninja Gaiden trilogy and Metal Gear: I played trough
them without knowing anything about the story... (I knew waaay time later
that the final boss in Metal Gear was Snake´s father Big Boss! LOL).
So I began playing Zelda with a friend that knew english in a reeeally sloppy
way... with a dictionary in hand. He had a tremendously difficult time trying
to translate me what was happening and I flipped with patience trough the dictionary
just to find out what "dungeon", "knight", "master sword" or "village" meant...
it was hard work but we were just thrilled to be playing such a cool game, and we
wanted to know about the story... Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy VI and others came
later... all with the same method. We were beating cool games, knowing the stories...
and LEARNING english without even noticing it. That is the power of videogames.
Now, don´t get me wrong: I still don´t understand very well the dialogs in games like
Soul Reaver or Vagrant Story, but that isn´t a problem. Even for people I know that doesn´t
know the english language AT ALL, they beat games without problem (but get easily stuck in
puzzles like the one in the piano in Silent Hill, or the letter on the train in Fear Effect).
That´s my two cents on the subject, my personal story.
Pablo, que no ponía atención en clase de inglés, pero lo aprendió jugando videojuegos! |
Cool story, although you do have an advantage of originally speaking Spanish (I'm guessing) which has a much more relaxed learning curve relative to English than English does to Japanese. Still, if it's possible between English and Spanish, that should say something, right?
| A very, very scary
person |
| Hey Chris,
It's extremely eerie that this topic came up. As I am typing this, I am
currently making a movie for my college english class. In the movie (I'm
using my action figures for actors, mind you), Mario and Luigi are
substitute teachers, and I have Bowser, Cloud, Tifa and Yoshi as the
students. Naturally, since Mario and Luigi speak in their Italian accent,
they have no right to teach an english class, and Cloud lets them know it.
Cloud then assumes the teaching responsibilities, like his tutorial in
FFVII, teaching about verbs, pronouns, sentence fragments, and the like
(With the FFT tutorial music in the background...joy...what i would give for
a Daravon figure, though). That's the basic "plot" of my movie, and i
estimate it'll be about 20 minutes long. Sure, it's not exactly what DMJ
meant, but it is an RPG character in some form or another instructing on
proper grammar. And I actually have to show this in front of the class, too.
Mama mia!
- Eric, who would give up sex for a super poseable Ashley Riot
figure...mmmmm...with accessories with interchangable blades and
grips...(orgasm)...yumm.... |
...
...
...
Be afraid. Be very afraid.
And what's really scary is, that film will probably end up on the net someday as one of those bizarre MPEGs that gets passed around the internet. For the love of humanity, I beg you, if you know this guy in person, stop his evil scheme before it advances any further.
| Prove him wrong,
developers! |
| I'd love to say that yes, RPGs are mature enough, intellectual enough, and
well-written enough to be used as texts in English classes.
But look at FFVIII.
Now look at, oh, any novel you've ever read in school.
It doesn't really compare, does it? Actually, scratch that; it's so far away
that it would take new quantum theory to bridge the gap before I start
collecting Social Security.
In other words, forget about. At this rate, RPGs will never be legit
literature.
-Eightball |
Like you say, I'd love to argue otherwise, but I can't, not at the moment. On the other hand, we do seem to be getting a lot of people pointing out that RPGs aren't literature. No, they're not, and if all you're trying to do is read the language in question, then you're at a real disadvantage vs. books. But RPGs might be far better to teach verbal and even written skills than a book, if they're constructed right.
| Why couldn't I go to
classes like that? |
| Yo,
With regard to the topic:
I am studying Film right now at York University. Every class we are assigned
various readings to do from the various texts we are forced to spend ungodly
of money on, but ah well, at least they are all 2000 editions.
Anyway, part of one of the readings I had to do for my "Introduction to Film
Art" class was on Final Fantasy VII. We were discussing mise-en-scene, essentially
the term used to describe all the things put on the screen that enhance the
storytelling. This can range from the positioning of the actors, to posters
put up in the background, to lighting, to symbolic colours, etc.. In the context of
Final Fantasy VII, it discussed its massive use of it, focusing primarily on Midgar
and its resultant "feel" by utlizing its mise-en-scene to such an elaborate degree.
The passage focussed also on the scene where the party is at the end of the
unfinished highway in Midgar, just before leaving, as well as the four screens
before Aeris' death. The other sequence it mentioned was the descent from Junon
to the underwater Mako reactor. With this example it discussed spatial relations
between each screen, as well as the use of music and sound to build suspense, or
at least gamer curiousity. After reading it I went back and played the game again
and when I got to that part it was fascinating to play. Here is a paraphrasing of what
the textbook said teamed with my own experience: You as the player are told you are
going to an underwater reactor; this is in and of itself an intriguing prospect, rousing
anticipation from the gamer. Each screen on the path to the reactor gets smaller and smaller,
building a kind of tension, enhancing the event. Finally, as you make it down the last elevator
part the music stops and a humming sound starts in a kind of electrical room. As you move on,
the next screen opens up in the underwater, clear glass path to the reactor with the fish
swimming around. At this time, the music also starts. The textbook commented on the
usage of the screens getting smaller to build tension and the necessity in having that
transitional electric room without the underwater reactor music to correctly pace the sequence
and rouse the appropriate sensations in the gamer. Specifically, by having such a confined room
open up into a vast ocean, essentially, the degree of awe experienced is increased.
Anyway, as for helping that guy with his project, I dunno, but I just wanted
to comment that video games at least have a place in the curriculum at my school
and that's pretty frickin' neat.
-Mike |
Nothing to add to this, except that I think we'd all be terribly grateful if you could send in the exact citation for the book or paper that you were quoting from.
| A blast from the past |
| Chris,
Sending this in late, so it'll likely not make the cutoff for Wednesday's
column :P
In all fairness, I do think that clothing for videogame characters has
gotten a bit better. I have to look no further than to the last
installment of Persona (where skirts are still there, but aren't
designed to hinder, or worse, only to look attractive, and all the
equipment and hair are fairly realistic) and to FF9.
Much as I like to bash the latter, I was pretty impressed with the fact
that aside for Steiner's rusty coat of arms, the rest of the characters
are dressed pretty comfortably for the time period (heck, princess Garnet
spends 95% of the game in a bodysuit-type thing), and except for
Amarant's...uhm... interesting hair, no one else seems to require a ton
of hair gel, either. Nowadays, it seems like the only real offender about
gravity defying hair is Nomura. Not that I mind too much, though I'm glad
I passed on The Bouncer in favor of Shadow of Destiny.
Oh, and while I'm at it, congratulations! You've been with TheGia for a
whole year... Doing letters five days a week most every week... Boggles
the mind doesn't it?
Let's see:
Somewhat topical letter: check
Plugging in my favorite game of the moment: check
Kissing butt: check
I'm all done, and I even managed not to be prolix. ;)
Princess "betcha you didn't see that coming ;)" Jemmy |
O rapturous joy! After many moons Jemmy has returned to the column! And gosh, she even remembered my anniversary! No cake, true, but her winsomely chaotic presence will do as a consolation prize. Now if only she'd toy with my mind like the good old days, my happiness would be complete.
Closing Comments:
It's always good to play devil's advocate for a while, and remember why I got into this RPG column thing in the first place. Free topic for tomorrow, that's all. Later.
-Chris Jones, afraid to think how many words he's typed for this column by now
|
