The day before yesterday -
January 16, 2001 - Chris Jones
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed
within this column are those of the participants and the
moderator, and do not necessarily reflect those of the
GIA. There is coarse language and potentially offensive
material afoot. The title can be expressed as a single word in Japanese,
but I like this way better.
Don't say we didn't warn you.
Today I do have something to talk about: the GBA. As time goes
on I'm becoming more and more confident that the ultimate portable
gaming machine will be something the basic size of a GBC that
hooks up to a Sony Glasstron or the equivalent, but in the meantime
the GBA still looks like a solid little box. No Square
development, but a portable 2D Castlevania game goes a long way
towards making up for that. And I don't have half the free time I
need to keep up with standard console games, let alone go
portable, but still, this thing looks pretty darned tempting.
Onward.
| Best console EVER!!!! |
| Chris,
Ah, SNES. In my opinion, the best console ever put
out...ever.
Not a very original opinion, I suppose, but whatever.
Some reasons:
1) Monopoly. Let's face it: The "16-BIT SHOWDOWN!"
between Genesis and Super NES never really happened.
Sure, Genesis got out there first, but then Super NES
stomped on it. I never remember hearing anything about
Genesis after SNES hit the block - and especially
after SNES developers hit their stride, from I suppose
1992 to about 1995. Mind you, I never owned either
until much later than they originally came out, so
take that as you will.
I mean, there were the early standout superstar SNES
titles - ActRaiser, F-Zero, and I suppose Super Mario
World (Although I didn't like SMW) but really, RPGs
especially, we saw the most concentrated RPG goodness
on Super Nintendo.
2) Games. For me, it's hands-down Chrono Trigger. Hey,
I was playing that today, trying to level up my guys
past level 80. I know a lot of people say "It's just
nostalgia" or "You're just being an old-schooler, get
the present!"
They're wrong. I truly and honestly can say CT is my
favorite game, hands down. Just like "The Bodyguard"
got Best Soundtrack on some VH1 special because of
that one song, CT is my favorite RPG, hey, it's
probably up there in Favorite Game Ever, and that
makes SNES the best console with it.
3) Concentration of Quality. What makes the SNES
better is there were other really, really awesome
games, besides CT. (Almost) everyone says FF6, and
they're justified, although I'd say FFIV more,
Terranigma, Metal Marines, ActRaiser, F-Zero, Rockman
& Forte, Megaman X, the list goes on. My favorite
side-scrolling fight game was SNES. Favorite RPG.
Favorite platformer. A LOT of favorites cluster on the
SNES.
And it can't just be nostalgia - I first played any
SNES game *AFTER* playing FFVII (among other RPGs) and
having a PC and being a gamer since 1990. And yet even
four years after CT was released, when I first played
it, I still think it's one of my favorite games ever.
And to keep this in perspective, I was playing a 3D
game (c)2000 and then played some CT right after
it...I have absolutely nothing wrong with old or new
school. To me, it is all about fun and quality. For
whatever reason, SNES as a system had more topnotch
titles than any other system, and that's why I think
it's the best.
=====
Peter. |
Your late entry into the SNES world has blinded you to a few key
facts - there most certainly was a battle for supremacy between the
SNES and Genesis, and if it weren't for the fanatical loyalty of some
of Nintendo's followers (myself included) and a very solid launch
lineup, things might have gone somewhat differently for the SNES, at
least here in the US. F-Zero, Pilotwings, ActRaiser... these were all
quality titles, but you have to remember that for a few months, they
were pretty much the entirety of the SNES lineup, whereas the Genesis
had an established library of every kind of game you could possibly
want, RPGs included.
Still, you're right that, in retrospect, the SNES had an embarrassment
of riches. Someone further down has an interesting statistic about how
good the SNES really was, relatively speaking, and I don't think Chrono
Trigger really was the greatest game ever, all things considered... but the system was a
high water mark for gaming, and will undoubtedly be remembered as such,
years later.
| Nostalgia trip |
| Greetings, Mr Jones.
*Inhales deeply*
Let me just run down a few of my personal favorite 16-bit RPG's, if
you will:
Actraiser:
This was the first 16-bit SNES game to truly *impress* me. The
visuals, story and the music... By Loto's Armor, the music is
fantastic. Truly ahead of it's time, Actraiser has more untapped
innovation that many RPG's could use even today. Sure, the action
scenes were not *too* difficult, but the game was satisfying like few
others could ever hope to aspire to be.. I truly wish that more games
utilized the sim-approach that Actraiser did. A shame of what became
of the sequel.
The Lufia games:
There is something to be said for a simple, yet elegant story. these
two games benefitted from a fabulous translation. (Good work, Taito!)
I really liked the characters. From Lufia and the Hero's playful
banter, to Jerin being called a "Slime Elf", the game brought a smile
to my face a great many times. The excellent sequel truly excelled in
every aspect. It brought forth great closure to an underrated series,
in my view.
Super Mario RPG:
I must confess, I simply love Nintendo and their characters and
games. So when I discovered that Square and the big N were teaming up
to create an RPG, my mind spun askew with many possibilities. The
final result was well done indeed. I think that this game does not
get enough credit for what it contributed to the subsequent RPG games
and the genre, itself. I mean, the combat system was very unique for
it's time. (Timed attacks? Hello FFVIII!) It had many interesting
minigames, like the music composing with Frogfucius, (The
predeccessor to Parrapa and their kind? Maybe...) The mine cart game,
and of course, Yoshi racing. The little touches are what made this
game for me. F-Zero vehicle models in a house, going behind that
curtain in Booster's (Wario on caffene pills, I swear!) castle and
going all 8-bit. Not to mention Culex. Ironic that this game came out
just as the news of Square's new direction in creating games was
settling in... (The PS & FFVII)
Harvest Moon deserves some recognition as the most addictive game
ever created whithin the 16-bit era. (Too bad that it has not really
changed much over the years. Is that really a bad thing, though?)
I would type more, but that is enough from me for now.
My apologies for so much to read, but I am quite the nostalgic one at
times. I intentionally left out the "big" ones, like CT, FFIV,V,VI
and SoM, because, no doubt, everyone will mention them.
Oh yes, Soulblazer and Illusion of Gaia rule!
*Exhales sharply, near death and as blue as a Happy-Happy Cultist*
-Erdrick (Who wishes he could make mention of DQV & VI, but sadly, he
has never played them...) |
There's not a lot for me to disagree with here... except that
nostalgia can be dangerous, as well as fun. Illusion of Gaia?!?! What
on earth are you smokin', man? IoG was one of the most generic,
pointless, tedious sidescrollers out there, and having it positioned
in any way as being near Soulblazer is a travesty. The SNES era was
fine and good, but it had it's dark side too... let us never forget that.
| The ability to change
class is good for a society, and an RPG |
| Hi hi, Chris!
You know what I'd love to see more of in games today? Class change. Not like
what I've heard was in FF1, where one class simply changes to another after
a certain event or period of time. I mean Seiken Densetsu 3/Ogre Battle Saga
class change, where a character begins as either a generic class or a specific
class and has various classes to choose from with different abilities as the game progresses.
This makes every gameplay experience unique because everyone will choose different
characters and/or class choices depending on what kind of attacks they like (magic, physical,
combination). Both of those games are some of my favorites simply because of the variety
they allow (of course, they have other great points, too, but I won't go into that now...)
~Staci/Nadia~
lover of the disgustingly kawaii |
Actually, class change is one of the better ways to evolve a party
in a meaningful way without making things feel arbitrary. As long as
potential future classes evolve logically from current classes, in a
way the player is aware of, characters can be grown towards magic or
fighting or whatever in a way that makes sense, but still forces some
sort of strategic resource allocation. The dark/light alignment system
of SD3 never made much sense to me, but evolving mages from chemists
and fighters from squires in FFT was a great way to manage a party.
| I want it now! Now, now,
NOW!!! |
|
Hey there,
I'll just get right to the point. There *needs* to be another Secret of
Mana-type game with multiplayer capabilities!! Legend of Mana was a huge
disappointment for me (and for others, I'm sure), so maybe Square can
recover and make a much better sequel to Legend of Mana.
Mike
|
This just isn't something I can much relate to - RPGs for me have
always been a pretty solitary experience, so any kind of multitap
setup just seems... odd. Still, there is a market out there,
and apparently a pretty vocal one, so perhaps this is something that
should be looked at more.
| Interesting fact of
the day |
| Random fact: Square published the same number of games (seven) for the
PlayStation in the states during 2000 as it did for the SNES total. I'd
make some kind of quantity over quality remark, but that simply isn't true.
So, uh... kudos to Square.
-Anson (Is it so wrong to prefer Robotrek over Chrono Trigger?) |
This should provide a great sanity check for everybody - as great as
the SNES was, it largely pales in comparison to what we've got today.
And while there will always be some few who will insist FF6 or CT or
whatever is the greatest game of all time, I daresay in 5 years people
will be just as nostalgic for the PSX as they currently are for the
SNES, if not much more so.
| The last Metroid is in
captivity. The galaxy is at peath... |
| I love talking about the past. The days that are so
fond in my mind. Days when I didn't have to work and
that I got to play games all the time (well, when not
at school). Ah, those were the good old days.
The games I remember playing are very similar to what
many of the older readers of The Gia played, I'm sure.
The ones that stick out in my mind the most are FF4
and 6, Actraiser, Soul Blazer (love those 2) and Super
Metroid. A couble I missed back then were Chrono
Trigger and Terranigma. Yes, I was deprived. But
ahhhh, Super Metroid. What a game. I loved the
original Metroid. It was like the 5th game I got for
the NES, the first 4 being Duck Hunt, Gyroscope (yes,
I got that gay-ass robot system), SMB, and Zelda. I
loved Zelda too, but Metroid was just as cool. Even
though I never won it. The last area was just too
tough for me.
But Super Metroid is my idea of a PERFECT sequel, even
if it's the 3rd in the series. It let me revisit
places that I loved in the first, and took me to even
new places. In addition to the cool suit
enhancements, there were even more additions. The
mini-bosses in the original Metroid were blown up.
Ridley was big, Kraid was HUGE. I loved that.
Everything was soooooo awesome. (Listen to me, I
sound like a little geekboy...wait, nevermind).
Anyway, I think Nintendo dropped the ball big time
when they didn't develop a Metroid game for the N64.
I REALLY REALLY think they should stick with the tried
and true format and make it a side scroller. I know
I'll probably get killed by everyone for that, but I
think that's the best way to go. I mean, look at the
Castlevania series. Who prefers Castlevania 64 to
Castlevania: SOTN? Seriously?
I will NOT buy a Gamecube if there is no Metroid. I
know they had Samus in the demos, but that doesn't
mean there'll be a game with her. I WANT METROID^3,
DAMMIT!!!
FLee |
Let's face it folks - another 2D Metroid is a lost cause. It will
never happen, it can never happen. There is no possible way Nintendo
would allow a flagship title with the potential to show off every bell
and whistle the Game Cube is capable of to be reduced to a mere
sidescroller.
And that's really not such a big deal. 3D games are capable of
generating the same sort of labyrinthine feel as the original Metroids,
believe it or not... take a look at Vagrant Story, and tell me if some of
the bonus dungeons don't feel like medieval versions of some of Super
Metroid's nooks and crannies. With the right game design, a new Metroid
could be everything the original was and more, 3D or no. Just trust me on
this one.
| Evermore nevermore |
| Secret of Evermore, glad you mentioned it. This game was so packed full of
features that the actual story was just way to short. I'm guessing that's
the reason why.
One of the features I loved from this game was the "ambient noise"
background music. One example was the marketplace. People chattering and
just the general crowd noise. If you went next to the livestock section you
heard chickens and cows and if you went into an alley the "noise" would die
down making it seem like you were really there. The swamp was the same way,
bubbling popping sounds, bugs buzzing crickets chirping and then every now
and then a mosquito would buzz real close only to get swatted. Keep in mind
it was all sounds so while nothing happened on the screen you still felt
like you were right in the middle of it. The sound department of the FF
games could take a lesson from it. Eliminate the crappy MIDI tunes
altogether. After they loop for the thousandth time, insanity isn't long to
follow. Either go to ambient noise or music with decent samples.Whoa, now I'm going in a totally different direction. Back on
subject.
Another feature I loved was the alchemy, and ingredient hunting with your
dog. I just couldn't resist going on the hunt once he started sniffing
around. This feature was actually used a little in FFVIII to upgrade
weapons. It wasn't useful but I had fun doing it anyway. In Evermore like
Secret of Mana it was very possible to eliminate a boss without attacking
once or taking a hit. Just line up spell after spell and let them execute
over and over again until it died.
To finish I would also like to comment on the similarities in the jump
between NES/SNES/N64/Cube. Remember Zelda I. Nice new game idea. Zelda
LttP just took the same idea and blew it out with features and gameplay.
Zelda tOoT was a totally new concept with similar gameplay but a seeming
lack of the features from the last. I predict Zelda Cube will be like Zelda
LttP, similar to the N64 version but blown out with features and enhanced
graphics. Same thing with Mario. The jump from 3 to World gave better
graphics and tons of levels and abilities and enemies. 64 took it in a
whole new direction and seemed to lack the volume that World had. So again,
Mario Cube I predict will be similar to 64 but with massively more features
moves levels enemies and everything else we love about these
franchises.
This isn't going to just be true for Nintendo but every other franchise
maker out there. The hope is that they don't get lazy and just rehash old
material. I think I remember Miyamoto saying that his ideas are just now
being realized the way he originally thought them out, only 10-15 years
later. Now that's vision.
Y@-long winded, yes? |
I actually thought things were the complete opposite of what you
describe - that FF8's build system was what SoE's alchemy system wanted
to be, but couldn't. After all, once you figured out where to look,
the ingredients to upgrade weapons in FF8 were plentiful, and having
the best weapons made a fair amount of difference later in the game. On
the other hand, rare elements in SoE were extremely rare, and I
never got enough experience with magic to make it a real alternative
to combat.
And besides, considering how far off graphics have been from reality
all these years, it's not at all difficult for Miyamoto or any one else to
have come up with an idea 15 years ago that's only now possible.
| It wasn't the games, it
was the people... |
| I could go on about the gameplay of the SNES era, but the truth is that a great deal of it is
alive today. PSX RPGs are basically refined from their SNES counterparts, and most of the
16-bit-era genres are alive in varying degrees. 3-D games have yet to be as refined as their
2-D counterparts, but the new consoles will and do show the power that can be used to allow
3-D gameplay to come up to par with 3-D graphics. I see the future not only refining gaming
like the 16-bit era did, but also introducing entirely new concepts (online play being a big one).
I can't wait until I get my grubby hands on Mario^3 and FF10 (goofy character
designs or not).
What seperates the 16-bit era from the rest of gaming is not so much the games as the mood
of the gaming community. It was a time when games were semi-dorky, and semi-hip. It's like
the 80's... mostly forgotten by most, but fondly remembered by those who expereienced it.
Maybe it was the slavish loyalty that Nintendo and Sega instilled into their fans, the sweet
commercials with JUST THE RIGHT amount of camp (the only modern game commercial that
evoked the same feeling was the Chu-Chu Rocket commercial, which completely and utterly
rocked), the way developers had to squeeze every bit of performance from the machine, or
the fact that there was no dang Internet and thus alot less bitching by hardcores... whatever
you may think, there was a cohesion, elegant simplicity, and heart in those games that hasn't
appeared in alot of modern games. There is some nostalgia involved, and if that makes me
oLd-sK0oL and lAm3, then I'm glad to be HJOSL. |
Amen, brother! To a large extent, ignorance was bliss, back then -
it didn't matter how good a game actually was, because we were all
buried in our own individual worlds, unable to tell each other how much
game X sucked, which therefore made it possible to imagine game X as
the best ever... until game Y came out. There's a lot to be said in
favor of the present, but there's a lot to be said in favor of the
innocence of the past, as well.
| The need for speed |
| Dearest Chris:
Don't get me wrong; I love new RPGs. I get so livid when old-schoolers
whine about how 3-D is evil that my spleen has ruptured twice. That being
said, I must admit, I do miss the old times every once in a while, and I'll
tell you why: speed.
Not drugs, you sick little monkey! No, I'm talking about how everything
just went so much faster in the old days -- not the games themselves, but the
loading time, the game-explanation time, scene changes, etc. Used it to be
you'd pop your FFIV game in the SNES, press power, (take it out and maybe
blow on it once or twice if it wasn't working quite right), zip by the title
screen, get your game, and move on with life. Now, with FFIX, you gotta
place the CD in, press the power button, get past the Sony screen, get past
the PSX screen, get past the Square Electronic arts screen, get past the
Squaresoft screen, wait for your memory card to load, and wait awhile for the
game to pop up. You know what I'm talking about? It all just seems so
cluttered.
So yes, that's why I miss the olden days sometimes -- when the phone is
ringing and I just got into a fight and it takes ten seconds for the swirly
thing and twenty seconds for the game to show me all the angles of the battle
and five for the camera to dwell on the particular landscape and another five
for it to actually get started and by the time I can pause it whoever was
calling has hung up. ::deep breath:: ... your thoughts, Chris?
--The Nisterious Nisty |
I see where you're coming from, I really do. Even though the battle
segue in FFIV was relatively cheap, even for the time (a blaring
digital noise and a sudden shaking of the screen) and the long
downward spin in Actraiser looks unbearably cheesy these days, they
all had a smoother, more organic feel than many games today do. Things
happened quickly, one after the other, and you never really had a
chance to get unhooked from the constant barrage of events packed in
to a cart.
The truth is, that kind of delay-free gaming is something we've largely
lost in the CD era. As higher speed drives come in to play, things may
get better, but the zero-wait-state days are long gone.
But, on the other hand, gaming has improved in enough ways to make the
current waiting and messing about with camera angles only a minor
annoyance. Game design is so much better these days that endless, generic
dungeons are only found in the lamest of titles, and saving me from
having to deal with stuff like that is worth every second that a "swirly
thing" segue takes up.
| Breathing is overrated |
| Just how does Yuna fight with an obi on? Those things are damned stiff.
Trust me.
Christoph, "Just.... trust me" |
I think I'll just... ignore the implications of your familiarity
with obis, and point out that Yuna undoubtedly learned how to fight in
an obi the same way that dozens of other video game heroines learned to fight
in awkward ball gowns, high heels, and full make up.
You see, there's a lot more involved with becoming a female game
character than you might suspect. Being brave of heart and skilled in
magic or combat is just the beginning: these women must also undergo
extensive plastic surgery to bring their figures more in line with what
today's anime-raised audience expects. They must learn to fight in the most
impractical garments imaginable, to fall down in semi-revealing poses
(although this is admittedly more of an issue for women in fighting games)
and to do it all while managing make up, hair styles, and other such
concerns.
So the next time you see someone like Quistis on screen, take time to
appreciate how much effort goes in to running in such a tight skirt, and
how much more to heroism there can be than what goes on on the screen.
Closing Comments:
Mo' better column. Tomorrow's topic is this: we've heard a lot about
reviving old series, but how exactly would you do it in such a way
that combines the fun of yesteryear with the graphics and control
standards of today? How would you go about making a new River City
Ransom, or Super Dodgeball, for example? Or a new Metroid, or what
have you? Let me know what details you'd like to see, and why you
think they'd work.
Also, just as a reminder, I'm still looking for reader suggested
topics for tomorrow's column. Due to one thing or another, this is
something that's fallen by the wayside, but it's something I think could
benefit from being brought back. So send in a short topic that you'd like
to see discussed, and maybe we can set it up for Thursday. Meantime, take
it easy, and I'll see you tomorrow.
-Chris Jones, can't imagine
an RCR sequel without classic exclamations such as "CRAP!"
|
