Double Agent
A cold day in heck - January 15, 2001 - Chris Jones

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed within this column are those of the participants and the moderator, and do not necessarily reflect those of the GIA. There is coarse language and potentially offensive material afoot. I'm sick of these constant bear attacks. Don't say we didn't warn you.

I don't have a damn thing to say in intro today. Maybe tomorrow.

Onward.

End of the line
Yesterday Drew mentioned how Nintendo keeps managing to innovate with their franchises like Mario and Zelda. One of the examples he cited was the transition from 2D to 3D. Should that really even count as an innovation? The whole industry moved from 2D to 3D.

What I'm saying is, while Mario 64 and Zelda: OoT managed to rejuvinate each series, where can they go from here? There aren't going to be any 4D consoles. These series weren't exactly full of innovation in the NES and SNES days. Only small changes and additions were made from installment to installment. What was the difference between Super Mario 3 and Super Mario World? Not a whole lot.

While we can never predict the future, even Miyamoto said not to expect too much innovation from N64 to Gamecube. I believe his quote went something like this "the leap from N64 to Gamecube, gameplay-wise, will be like the leap from NES to SNES, not a big leap like from SNES to N64." Nintendo IS out of ideas... the coming of 3D just bought them an extra few years, because making their franchises into 3D gave them enough changes to keep people interested.

They seem to be up to something with their new development studios like Left Field and Brownie Brown, but these development teams are unproven and it's anyone's guess as to what the quality of the games they produce might be. If you ask me, a lot hangs on these new development studios of Nintendo's... if they put out high quality games that people are interested in playing (both quality AND interest... look at Sega to know that they do not go hand in hand automatically) I think Nintendo will have great success with the Gamecube and will continue that success for years to come under this "new guard" they're forming. If the new guard isn't a success, I think it's curtains for Nintendo within the next 10 years.

I think we've still got a lot to look forward to with the next generation. While the NES/SNES jump wasn't as big as the SNES/N64 jump from a gameplay perspective, there were still some significant changes between the two. Even just simple graphical upgrades made classic games like Actraiser possible, while other series like FF had the chance to experiment with deeper gameplay even as the graphics remained constant. Even without major paradigm shifts, the next few years could be truly great, gaming-wise.

Full spectrum
Chris --

In more than one place, in the upcoming battle of PS2 v. Big N v. MS, people are going out of their way to mention Nintendo will be targeting the younger audience. This shows me how little the mainstream press truly knows about the game industry. To be saying this there are two things that must be being considered -- thinking NES and SNES when thinking Nintendo and Pokemon.

Jet Force Gemini
Harvest Moon 64
Perfect Dark

These were three major releases by Nintendo last year, none of which I can imagine were designed targeting anything but an adult gamer. Mario Tennis is a great party game that like Super Smash Brothers and the Mario Party series has an older following than one might imagine. Heck, Kirby 64's strongest pundits were those appreciating a well done 2D platformer. We all know that 2D is ' old school' and 3D is 'where it's at today!' The two big titles for N64 early this year Paper Mario and Conker's (I shouldn't even mention that) should skew older as well.

Look at the expected/rumored launch titles for GBA -- Super Mario Cart, something Contra plus several interesting-looking RPGs; and Gamecube -- Metroid, Perfect Dark 2, Mario Cubed and Zelda. Some of these are licenses are ten years old or more. If these only target the YOUNGEST players who originally enjoyed them, were talking late-teens and early twenties today -- no kids there, folks.

Nintendo's true strength is the breath of the market they have. As a gamer it is the Gamecube and not the X-Box which I am most looking forward to (and which I have reserved). If being able to enjoy the new adventures of Samus or a world of Hyrule the likes of which none of us have ever seen means I'm a child -- guess I'm a child come later this year.

Hayden Dawson

The thing is, it was never the case with the N64 that there were no interesting games targeted at an older audience, just that they weren't there to the extent that people expected, compared to the PSX or even the Dreamcast. Games like Metroid could go a long way towards bring back the hard core audience, the only question is how few and far between they'll be.

Let the wackiness ensue
Chris,

Let's get on a well-worn yet obviously not discussed enough topic, shall we?

Niche genres: The men, the mythos, and the mrplbgfsxgppp. Think about them for a bit. With the video game industry being as booming as it is, don't you think we should be getting more of these things?

As an example, I went down to the Twin Cities one day to purchase the weirdest import I could find. I ended up with a copy of a game called "(indecipherable kanji) Hunter Lime Special Collection Vol. 2". You otaku freaks out there may recognize (indecipherable kanji) Hunter Lime as a spinoff of the more popular anime, Ranma 1/2. Allow me to describe the game's plot in the same fashion as the ghoul barkeeper from Fallout 2:

It's like, there's this dude, see? And he's wearing a maid outfit! And it's like, he gets his ass kicked by a pretty young lady who takes his job, you see? And then Taki, the octopus from Parodius, crawls up her skirt!

And at that very point in the game, I realized: We need more games like this in America. We need dating sims. We need more rhythm games. We need dating sims. We need train conducting simulators. We need dating sims. We need virtual roommates. We need sidescrolling Gradius clones. WE NEED DATING SIMS, DAMMIT!

But us Americans would probably prefer Army Men to Sentimental Graffiti 2. Feh.

-Cedric Henry
http://lobstaboy.tripod.com

The odd title like Incredible Crisis aside, I must agree - here in the states we're woefully under-supplied in a wide variety of genres that make no sense whatsoever. My life won't be complete until I can breed and race virtual horses, or win the hearts of anime dream girls by choosing the correct arbitrary answers to questions no sane person would ever ask. Narrative, causal logic is for losers, but when will America wake up and realize that?

Name brand consoles at low, low prices!
Hey Chris!

Just back from the weekend, and you're dropped into the middle of the console blitzkrieg with just a soggy towel to defend yourself. Oh well, go for the trenches, I say!

I really don't think first-party games will decide this war, as much as I'd like them to. Just look at the Dreamcast-PS2 situation. No, brand recognition will decide this : while everyone who wants to be considered "cool" (such an old-fashioned concept) will get a PS2, and every child will get a Nintendo machine from their parents. The gaming hobbyists will have the choice to have every game in a couple of years ('cause Gamecube probably won't launch until late 2002) or play everything minus the Nintendo releases now. And because it's anything but certain that Nintend'oh won't repeat the same self-centered mistake they made with N64 (in fact, dec issue of NextGen had an interview with Imanishi which suggested they would make that same mistake again) I'll get a PS2 when FFX comes out.

Sir Farren, hopes Square and Konami will port everything to Dreamcast, just so he won't have to buy yet another machine.

I think you're underestimating the degree to which games power the selection process these days. The days where Nintendo was the only console parents were aware of are long gone - they'll get their kids whatever console the kids want, and the kids will make their decisions based on which console has a handful of must-have games. That could be the PS2, or it could me the Game Cube if Nintendo can get the marketing right.

Stepping up to the age level where people start buying their own consoles, I don't think PS2's "cool" is anywhere near sufficient enough to make it a lock - things are probably too late for the DC, but Sony's inability to get units into stores may have left a lingering bad taste in many people's mouths, which X-Box could profit from. In other words, I think this thing's still wide open for anybody to take home.

My secret shame exposed
Hey there good buddy Chris,

It has come to my attention that neither you nor Drew actually like RPG's anymore. Your geek liscense is now officially revoked.

I'm joking, but with a point. I think you should realize that you're in denial. You claim that you want more innovation in RPG's, but admit it, you really don't like them much anymore, and neither does Drew.

Drew, for example, wants an exploration game like Zelda but with real-time, non random battles and ingenius puzzles in the dungeons. You've made similar comments. Honestly, this is Zelda, what's the difference? It's an adventure game. Don't get me wrong, I like adventure games, I'm glad they exist and I play them, but I also love my strategic games with buttloads of chess-like strategy. I wish more existed.

Just take note though, that the changes you like to see made would take us so far out of the bounds of what an RPG is that it's really not the same thing at all anymore. Probably what you two want aren't more progressive RPG's, but instead adventure games with better stories.

War and Strife,
-Sickpigman, who got you sick, hence the name.

P.S. I realize that it could be argued that I don't like RPG's either, instead preferring strategy games with more exploration. I thought Lunar's battle system was ingenious. So simple, but with incredible strategy in the movement aspects. The battles truly are fun..

I won't speak for Drew, but as for myself, while it might be true to say I no longer enjoy standard RPGs to the extent that I once did, it's incorrect to say I don't like them at all anymore. Something Drew once wrote nails my opinion pretty well - we grew up with RPGs, and now expect RPGs to grow up with us. There's nothing wrong with the ways RPGs have always been, except that I've seen way too much of it by this point. There's still plenty of hope for the genre without turning things into an action RPG - one of my favorite titles last year was Saga Frontier 2, which had a standard turn-based system with only moderate tweaking. There's no reason not to expect more innovation in the same vein, and that's what I'm waiting for in the next generation of games.

Closing Comments:

I'm tired of arguing, so it's time for a nice retro column. For tomorrow, let's take a look at some classic SNES stuff - Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, FF6, sure, but also Soul Blazer, Actraiser, even Secret of Evermore and the original Breath of Fire. Some analysis is good - what came out of these games that's survived to the modern era, gameplay-wise, and what didn't that you'd like to see games pick up on again? Send me some email, because otherwise I get hungry. See you tomorrow.

-Chris Jones, wants to fight the Arctic Wyvern some more

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