Something gets lost in the
translation -
November 10, 2000 - Chris Jones
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed
within this column are those of the participants and the
moderator, and do not necessarily reflect those of the
GIA. There is coarse language and potentially offensive
material afoot. The most dangerous biotech in the world is a guy with a
goat and an axe.
Don't say we didn't warn you.
Bruce Sterling, my literary idol, once said that there's a
quality in a translation, any translation, that you just can't
get in the original. At the very least, the statement sounded cool
enough for the cyberpunk sf movement to adopt it as dogma. (And if
you think cyberpunk equates with dumb guys with guns and cranial
jacks, you need to read the good stuff more.) I personally tend to think there's
a large chunk of truth in the statement, especially as it applies
to Japanese RPGs, but as to what you think... well, let's find
out, shall we?
Onward.
Right off the bat, we
start the Woolsey bashing |
Hey Chris,
Interesting question. What is the WORST translation ever? I don't know,
but one that sticks out quite well as moderately bad is that of FFIIus,
which had "spoony bard" and other such memorables. But then again, in that
case, "bad" is in the eye of the beholder. I still loved the game to
death.
While recently the quality of localizations has been improving, I find that
in most cases, the originals have a richer feel. I myself do fan subbing
on ocasion for my university Anime club, so I compeletely sympathize with
the translators. Personally I prefer fan's translations, because they're
more obsessvie, and thus more likely to want to get it done PERFECTLY.
Without a doubt, the quality of translation goes a long way to making a
game. I'm actually looking forward to playing Vagrant Story in english
because of what I've heard about the translation. The Working Designs'
translations are by far and out gems, capturing the feel and essence of the
original without necessarily sticking to a by the letter translation.
With issues such as translation in voice acting, games like MGS and
Resident Evil show what good and bad voice acting can do to a game. While
in the case of Resident evil, it gave a campy feel that was quite funny, in
MGS it would have turned into a disaster.
If I write anymore, I'll go over Chris' limit, which I probably have
already done, so I go bye-bye now.
Drakonian |
I'll grant you that fan translations can sometimes be quite good,
often better than what the official translation was... but I don't
think it's really fair to compare them to the official translation
either. A lot of people have been knocking on Woolsey and dismissing
the issues of time and resources that were available to him. It's
"obvious" that the text memory should have been expanded for English,
and that compression should have been used for the text. Problem is,
those kind of options simply weren't available to him as the lowly
translator at the time.
To a fan
translator, the work is a labor of love and they can spend as much time
and effort as they care to to get it right. But at the time, FFIV was
just another video game, produced at a time where games were far more
low profile. Like any programmer in the real world, Woolsey did the
best he could in the time available, same as with FFVI and Chrono
Trigger. OF COURSE those conditions aren't going to produce a
"perfect" translation, and it's a bit petty to look at things
otherwise. The good news is that we're now in the modern era, and
Square's translations are quite excellent overall... and that statement
will last maybe two letters before someone challenges it.
The hard line stance |
Hey Chris,
Hrmm....best and worst translated game? I don't really think many
people can answer that question correctly because in order to judge
a games translation, one must have also played and UNDERSTAND the
original japanese version. How can people say a game has good or bad
translation if they don't even know what the original meaning was?!
But if you knew what the original meaning was, then practically
all localized games have bad translation somewhere. Even the most
simplest games such as Super Mario Bros. and Mega Man have bad
translations. Super Mario Bros. is actually Smash Bros. and Mega
Man is Rock Man! I mean, c'mon!!!! The only text in those games was
practically the title, and the translater STILL screws up!!!!
To sum it up, there is no best or worst translation. Its either correct or
wrong.
-Xeno |
Ok, I gave the opinion airtime. And now that I've done so, I can
rightfully say that this is complete nonsense. Absolutely a translator
should be going for meaning as well as the actual words in the
original version, but it's foolish to say that there isn't a scale of
good or bad as to how well something's been translated, or that things
must be exactly as in the original for something to be "correct".
Who cares if Rock Man got renamed Mega Man? Yes, it's more
interesting to have access to the music-related in-jokes in the game
(Roll, Forte, Bass, etc.) and it did eventually lead to absurdities
like "Megaman Volnutt", but just renaming something isn't that big a
deal. I've never even heard that about Super Mario Bros., and I'm not
entirely sure if I buy it, but if it is true that I'm most thankful
to Nintendo for giving us a relatively much more interesting name. In
short, harping on the fact that some details are changed from one
version to the next is just pointless.
Like it's not even there |
The best translation is the one that doesn't sound like one. Vagrant Story
and Metal Gear Solid are examples of some. Also, the translations do not
have to be absolutely faithful to the Japanese version. As long as the
spirit is there, it's good enough for me.
Concisely,
Fares |
I'll buy into this one... except there's nothing left for me to say
about it. Moving on.
That wacky misogynist Zidane |
Yo Chris,
Translation are key to any game, and I see them improving with time. FFVI
had a translation that was...well, I guess adequate is the only way to
describe it. It got the job done, but without much flair.
FFVII was good, although spotty at times. Some severe mistakes and obvious
omissions made it worse than it should of been, but it still worked. FFVIII
had something very nice, even if you didn't like the characters or story, the
translation made sure you understood the reasons why people did what they did
(although it didn't help explain away Time Compression...)
FFIX looks great so far. Zidane is a pimp, and it's obvious by the way he
talks. Some parts of it are laugh-out-loud funny, because of the
script.
I think that Xenogears was amazing, I only found one typo in it after three
playthroughs (they messed up on psychological). It was very detailed,
without many errors at all, but it lacked the flair of Vagrant Story and
FFIX. Luckily, they have been improving as time as gone on.
The whole industry is improving, as games get larger budgets. I bet someday
people will look back at Star Ocean 2 and say, "There was a time when they'd
hire voice actors that sound like that?!"
--The Steve |
Again, sounds about right. Xenogears I'm not so sure about, because
even though the game was largely grammatically correct, the translation
didn't do nearly as much towards explaining the story or giving greater
emotional heft to the characters as it should have... but on the other
hand, if seen as an evolutionary stage between FFVII and Vagrant Story,
it's quite acceptable.
MUST HAVE APOSTRPHE! |
Chris,
For the most part I dont have problems with tranlation in games. That is, for
the most part.....the exception is the contraction. Please use contractions,
I cant stand seeing emotional scenese being played out without them. It makes
things feel akward and forced. This is why I stay away from Legend of Dragoon
after playing the demo. "No, I will go with you." "Stay here, You it is too
dangerous". *looks angry* Ok, not exactly what happened, but something as mind numbing was said.
Kandrin on ice. |
Amen, brother. Nothing makes me wince quite as much as a lack of
verbal shortcuts where real speech would be littered with 'em. It's
absolutely amazing to me that translators can't take five seconds to
say to themselves, "nah, he'd say something like 'I'll be back later'
rather than 'I will return here when possible.'" Of course, I'm
stepping on my own comments about time available above, but still,
it's a definite bucket of cold water when something like that happens.
Again, here's being thankful that it doesn't happen so much anymore.
Fan translations are
good... |
I can think of two really good examples of how much translation means to
the quality of a game. the first is the difference between square's
slipshod official english translation for final fantasy 4 and the ff4j
translation patch made by the good folks at dejap. on the most basic
level there are stylistic and structural changes so for example instead
of getting the now infamous "you spooney bard!" you get "you bastard!."
this of course makes for a smoother and less clunky dialouge and its a
lot easier to take characters like cecil seriously when they don't say
things like "i am just a poor dark knight..." :-) its also nice to get
the full accurate translations of anger, vulgarity, curses, etc. this is
not the most important part however, i discovered that there is so much
more to translation. The depth of the story and the overall character
development is enhanced greatly by the more skillful and careful
translation. kain makes so much more sense given new revelations about
his father, and the initial rumors of the secret (and highly sexual)
affair between rosa and cecil give us insights into their releationship
that were either dumbed down or just not present in the original
version. i guess one bonus for emulators is that you can play this game
over again-trust me its worth it.
the other example is chrono cross. yes quite a wonderful game, but
it had plot holes you could drive sophia the 3rd through (i love blaster
master :-) ) my friends and i spent days trying to comprehend everything
in the game and i saw that people here did too-finally however i came to
the conclusion that its not us, its the translation! from reading around
the internet and talking to people who own the japanese version it has
become apparent that the story did not translate very well-that certain
details were lost and certain ambiguities were created. "lavos did blah
blah blah..." would make more sense if they said which lavos and the
lavos from what time, and apparently those details ARE present in the
japanese version. overall this did not detract too much from my
enjoyment of the game but i did have to just sort of pretend like it all
made sense in order to keep my sanity.
of course translation goofs are not all bad, i still laugh my butt
off whenever i play pro-wrestling and receive the warm victory
declaration "a winner is you!!!," but when it comes to rpgs poor
translations can seriously detract from the story, from overall
enjoyment and from the whole experience in general.
s.c., the master of lock picking. |
"Secret and highly sexual"? I've read through one or two of the fan
translations for FFIV out there and never seen anything even remotely
like what you're talking about - some more kissing than what I remember
from the US version, but not much more than that. As for Chrono Cross,
I haven't heard from anybody on staff that's played both that the
Japanese translation is infinitely superior. There's certainly some
info they've got that makes understating the game a bit easier, such
as the ending movies to the Chrono Trigger PSX version, but nothing
you can't get yourself with a little research effort. If there's any
problems with the game, I suspect that they really were caused by
simple miscomprehension on the player's part - I know that I got
things that were perfectly straightforward wrong, even though they
were stated quite plainly in the game, simply because there was so
much plot to keep track of.
... no they're not. |
Having recently played a fan-translated ROM of FF4 Hardtype, I'd have to say
Woosley was very much a good translator- the fan translation's only contributions
were swearing and typoes. Woosley, however, was as not nearly as good as VS'
translator, Alexander O. Smith. Good stuff.
As for Square going under: over one million copies of FF8 sold in the US. At
about $40-60 a pop. That's a lot of cash.
-Davon |
Sounds about right to me. One fact that a lot of people seem
obsessed with is that in the US version, Rosa is nearly crushed by a
giant boulder, whereas in the Japanese version she's nearly cleaved in
two by a giant falling blade. Other than being able to see that the
blade is there in all the previous scenes (as opposed to mistaking it
as just part of the scenery and being surprised when it actually
started falling, which I kinda preferred) who gives a flying leap? I
like FF2 as much as anyone, but seriously, it's just not that
deep, that small changes could make a big difference in the game.
Even not being able to resurrect Palom and Porom is forgivable, as far
as I'm concerned.
Wow. |
"Ted Woolsey - knight of valor or goof-up? "
Ted Woolsey was a Goof-Off that turned into a Sage at the Shrine of
Dhama.
Andrew Toth |
Wow, a DQ ref and an FF ref at the same time! Not an easy
thing to do, especially considering that it's actually on topic.
Excellent work sir, I salute you!
Once more I must stand
up for FFT's translation |
Chris:
The bad translation of Final Fantasy Tactics does not damage its technical
excellence... I got a good feeling! But it goes a long way toward making
what is ostensibly a religious and political drama into a comedy. This is
the way!
--DarkLao |
Ok, just for the record I've got to step in once more and defend
FFT's translation. Yes, the bar jobs and tutorial have some bad
screwups, and yes, there are one or two goofs in the main part of the
game itself. (Older brother, and all that.) But the core story is
still there, it's just that it's a horrendously confusing labyrinth of
politics and family. None of the fan translations I've seen out there
have been much different from what we've got, and I was able to follow
the part of the game I actually cared about well enough, so I really don't see
what all the fuss is about.
Getting back to that
"quality in a translation" thing |
Here's my two bits on translations: Having played many different RPGs in
Japanese and English, and some classics like FFVI and Chrono Trigger in
both, no matter how clean and good the translation seems, the English
version feels like it's missing some little something, like the magic isn't
*quite* all there. Now, I don't think that you can really blame the
translator for this, though there's certainly plenty of other crap that you
can blame the translator for. I guess it just shows that no matter how good
the translation, it will never be a perfect fit for what the designer
conceived in their native language.
- Gene
Oh, and my vote for worst translation has to go to FF Tactics. Like many
wonderfully horrible movies, the dialogue in that game was entertainment by
itself. |
Getting back to the intro, this letter is really what I was talking
about - the idea that there's something intrinsically superior about
game text written in Japanese. I think there's a definite mythos that's
grown up around Japanese RPGs, anime, etc., so that a lot of us tend to
think that since it's from the mother church, in a sense, it must be
superior. And I can't really argue with that, because it's a
subjective thing and if you think Japanese stuff is just inherently
cool, more power to you. But the more I've played, the more I've
started to think that it has nothing to do with the translation as much
as it has to do with the core game and story therein, and that in a
lot of cases, good translation or no, there's simply not that much
there to begin with. And that being the case, no amount of polish will
make a game take off. Of course, that's just my opinion, but I can't
bring myself to look at a game like the US release of Grandia and think
that it's all the translator's fault. There may be more to it than
that.
Closing Comments:
I'm really drowsy for some reason... maybe some Zelda will wake me
up. Send AK some good email, and I'll talk to you Monday.
-Chris Jones, can live with
the occasional "good feeling" |