A Square has no end -
November 9, 2000 - Chris Jones
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed
within this column are those of the participants and the
moderator, and do not necessarily reflect those of the
GIA. There is coarse language and potentially offensive
material afoot. Monarchy's lookin' pretty good about now.
Don't say we didn't warn you.
Man, this thing's getting out of hand. At this rate we'll be
fighting a civil war by the end of the year, and I look cool in
both blue and gray, so I'm not even sure who I'd end up fighting
for. Perhaps they can solve this in some civilized manner, like a
winner takes all Chu Chu Rocket tournament or something.
But still, the question remains - which is worse, the national
uncertainty, or my jokes?
Onward.
| "Drunk marketing guy?"
Bit redundant, isn't it? |
| Interesting topic. Let me give it a shot.
Honestly, it's possible. The FF Movie alone could break them financially,
it's ambitous beyond belief. I don't know about abroad, but a lot of
animated movies here have fallen flat on their face, excepting anything
Disney. The notable exceptions have still been kiddie flicks, like
Chicken Run. No one ran out to see Titan AE, that's for sure.
Aside from the movie bit, it seems like Square is tripping over the same
block several companies have hit before: spreading itself too thin.
Really, how popular is a Chocobo to spin off entire series based on the
fluffy bird? What was the point of Ergheiz, other than a fighter with
Cloud in it? What is the point of reworking your ultra-recognized name
brand into an online RPG except more market tapping? Why build an entire
movie from CG other than to show off your studio?
Some really drunk marketing guy must have gotten hold of the company
controls over there, because everything Square has done recently has
reeked of marketing gimmicks. And The Steve is right, it might just bury
them. I don't think it will be this year, or the next, but eventually
Square will choke on all the branches it's trying to spread. The old
adage is true, nothing lasts forever.
At the very least, I'm glad other companies seem to be stepping up to the
plate. Enix is back in action here in the states, much better than
before. I'd like to see Game Arts go places as well; I wouldn't mind
seeing a Grandia or Lunar 3.
=====
Radhil Trebors
Persona Under Construction |
Well, in defense of the FF Movie, Titan AE wasn't all it could have
been. One really good joke at the end, but other than that, pretty much
forgettable... which is no guarantee that the FF Movie won't go the
same way, unfortunately.
As for the answer to many of your questions in the second paragraph,
I can sum it up in one word: "money". 'nuff said.
| Movies are always good |
| Chris:
The FF movie is a good idea. A very good idea:
Most high budget movies gross worldwide at least as much as their original
budget. In the top 20 most expensive films of all time, only The 13th
Warrior failed to gross worldwide more than its budget (and it basically
sucked). Toy Story (the first one) grossed $359 million, and it was breaking
new ground. Toy Story 2 has grossed $486 million. And Toy Story didn't
already have a fan-base that bought a few million copies of each of its last
two games. Of course, ticket sales aren't everything, so they do Final
Fantasy the Movie merchandising: action figures, videotapes, movie
soundtrack, DVDs, clothes, what-have-you. Add in the boost to games sales as
the movie is watched by millions who've never played the games. Couple years
later we get FFTMII. Call me wildy optimistic, but I'm going to make a
prediction: It'll be huge. HUGE.
And so... despite the fact that (based on my biased opinions about online
games in general) I think FFXI will suck suck suck (although there are a lot
of people with money and no taste--so it may be a financial success), I
doubt that Square really has anything to worry about.
--DarkLao
P.S. Worst case scenario the company goes kablooie and the staff gets hired
by other software developers. Big deal. The talent won't be lost. |
That's what I love about this job - I end up arguing the
completely opposite position from what I said last letter. I don't
think it's all that easy to make a good animated movie; Toy Story 2 was
a quite stunningly good film, precisely because it was so simple and
straightforward. Don't get me wrong, TS2 has all sorts of subtle
undertones and I love that about it, but there's little debate
that the film's about nothing more than a toy doll who has to chose
between living forever vs. simply living. And simple, meaningful story's
the main strength of
the movie, and the reason it grossed through the roof.
Meanwhile I'm
worried that FF will end up coming off like a lot (but not all) of Japanese anime
does - interestingly pretentious, but without any clear meaning. I'll
certainly go see it, twice if it's good, but in a summer movie season
it'll have to be totally freakin' brilliant to really pull in the big
bucks, and I don't think we can assume that.
| The disaffected
perspective |
| Hi Chris,
I thought for...well, at least 5 seconds on the thursday's topic and IMO,
the real problem of square is a problem of strategy.
Since FF7 breakingthrough, square is a growing company that turns more and
more towards an "open armed" company. That leads to a state where the spirit
of a game given by a creative producer is swallowed up by the desires of a
team.
The fact that they dispatch their attention between a movie, a network based
RPG and up to 3 platforms is a clue to predict a loss of "trademark" from
Square. Even though they keep guest stars such as chocobo, cid, etc... the
very soul is wiped away.
I may be pessimistic but I do hope they still keep a player's point of view
and stick to one people's view of a game concept.
Pete Fighter. |
I disagree with this standpoint, but I can't deny that it has a
hell of a lot of adherents and that there is a certain amount of
backing logic behind it. Square is not the tiny, earnest RPG shop it
once was, and if you liked the games put out by that shop I can see why
you'd think things have completely gone to hell when Square ends up
doing fighting games, online games, and eye candy movies. The fact is,
this isn't a debate that can be settled until we can see the final
product and the public's reaction to it, and that's a ways off.
| The end of the world as
we know it |
| Hey Chris,
Steve is worried about the end of Square, as a whole. But I've got a scarier
thought that needs addressing, and something I've been thinking of for a
long time:The end of Sakaguchi.
Yep, however sad it will be, it is inevitable. One day, Hironobu Sakaguchi
will pass away, so what will happen to the Final Fantasy series? Square
basically would then have two choices:
1. Continue the series, without him, squeezing out all the talent they can
find from within their company (and risk lack of innovation/creativity). Or,
2. Square could nobly end the series.
Moreover, what would the fans want? Would gamers want Final Fantasy to
continue? Or would they rather see it end alongside the end of
Sakaguchi.
Of course, there's also the idea that Sakaguchi might even decide to end the
Final Fantasy series himself, you never know.
Now that we're on this train of thought, how about the death of Nobuo
Uematsu, or Amano, or Tetsuya Nomura even? Will Final Fantasy be Final
Fantasy without Uematsu as the composer? or Amano/Nomura as character
designer?
Just a thought,
--Sachi Coxon
P.S. Yeah I know it's "end of discussion", Chris, but I'm sick of everyone
making mistakes: In Japan, "Chocobo" is pronounced just as it is written,
with a short "o" sound, as in "pop", with a slight emphasis on "bo". The
best anglicised pronounciation, then, would be: "cho-co-boh" -- with the
first two syllables said short and the last "boh" longer. Trust me, I'm
half-Japanese (with bilingual Japanese/English skills). Okay, NOW it's end
of discussion! |
As much as anything, this may be a reason behind Square's desire for
diversification - Sakaguchi won't be around forever, and even if they
attempt to keep it going, they can't be sure it'll retain its popularity.
Thus, trying to make sure there are other games in line to keep the
profits coming in is a fairly bright thing for Square to do. And I think
it's a mistake to think that even now Sakaguchi's the end all be all of the
company - I've been very pleased with what the Xenogears/Chono Cross team
has done, as well as Matsuno's work on FFT and Vagrant story. In that
sense, it's not so much important that Square keeps any given person as it
is that they're able to develop new talent.
And as for the Japanese thing... yikes, what a can of worms. Suffice it
to say, I still think what Jennifer laid out yesterday was mostly correct,
insofar as it was possible for a thirty second Japanese lesson to be. It's
absolutely true that many Japanese speakers would make an effort to speak
a katakana "Seattle" as something close to what an American would, just as
I'd try to say "sayonara" with something other than my natural slight
southern drawl. But there's nothing in the writing that indicates
it should be said that way, something my Osaka born Japanese teacher never
let up about. There are some minor exceptions in the
hiragana/katakana system (as someone else pointed out, the "su" syllable
in "Asuka" is cut short) but I'm pretty sure that none of that effects
"chocobo". I don't mean to doubt your Japanese credentials, but I've got
three other native-born Japanese experts telling me three different
things - and that makes sense to me. After all, how many different ways
have you heard people prnounce common English words like "February"?
That said, I reiterate my earlier argument that IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER
THAT MUCH, and I'm ending it here.
| Square: brighter than
you think |
|
Okay, lets get one thing bronzed:
Square is smarter than the average John K. Yogi Bear UFC
Champion.(www.spumco.com)
From the business end of things, Square was financially secured well before
production started, by splitting the movie team into Square Productions.
They've recieved countless yen from Sony as part of their infamous
"percentage of Playstation units" deal. They've done a really good job of
capitalizing on their brand names (Final Fantasy is still a high volume
seller, and their low-end, low-development-cost titles in the Chocobo series
must consistently earn profits). I imagine they are getting a hefty, hefty
sum from Bandai for their insanely low-development-cost Wonderswan
games.
Now, Square isn't the roaring success story (business-wise) that Nintendo is
every year, but it doesn't have to be (yet). Instead, its a software
company with gigantic friends (SCEA, Sony Pictures, EA). Thats enough to
keep it around for a long time to come.
At the worst, Square Productions gets cut off like a diseased leg (sort of
like what happened to Fox Animation Studios after the Titan A.E.
debacle).
KZ |
This makes sense... except that I think, if
Square Productions was going to be terminated as you suggest it would
have already been done, since it's massively over budget from the figures
I've seen. But rather than cutting their losses, Square proper's gone
out to try and raise more money for the thing, thus putting the rest of
the company in greater danger. You're probably right that the movie,
at least, won't mean the end of the company regardless, but nor is it
something Square can easily walk away from at this point.
| Ob la di, ob la da...
(finish the verse) |
|
Chris,
Square is spreading itslef pretty thin, and taking what seem to be enormous
risks...but what if they pull it off? This could be the start of a true shift
of balance in the gaming world. I think Square will enter into the console
race if their current plans come into fruition and success.
And even if they fail, is that so bad? They've brought us years of great games
and entertainment, and for that im thankful. Plus, even if the company fails
and goes under, the developers of these great games will be snapped up by rival
companies in a heartbeat to have them continue making great games, just under a
different liscense. I dont fear for Square's future, but I do look forward to what might come of their success.
Kandrin on ice. |
Dude, how can I compete with such an attitude? You gotta give me
something to while or complain or disagree with - this "making the best
of whatever happens" thing just isn't gonna fly, comprende?
| I'm a mouth breathing
American, and proud of it |
|
Hey Chris,
Two things, both on topic:
1.)The Steve said in his topic by the way, that "...every non-RPG that Square
releases sucks hard." Every last one? Really? Not a single half-way decent
non-RPG ever made by Square? So Bushido Blade 1 and 2, and Ehrgeiz, and
Einhander(which I have not played, but have heard mostly good things about)
all have no redeeming values whatsoever? While admittedly not as spectacular
as Square's best offerings, they're hardly as bad as some of Square's RPGs,
like SaGa Frontier. Something to think about.
And 2., I think Square may be in trouble. I don't think the movie will do
badly, especially not in Japan, and will likely do well here if correctly
marketed. Us mouth-breathing Americans love a good effects film. Look!
Shiny! But they may have bit off more than they could chew with FF XI. I am
personally looking forward to it, but unless Square can find a way to
convince players to pay the monthly fee, they'll have a hard time covering
costs, especially if they run the entire PlayOnline network by their lonesome
selves. I think they should team up with a bigger company to help provide
that network access, maybe even Sony or Microsoft. However, I don't think
Square could go completely under barring an utter tanking of both the FF
movie AND FF XI. At worst, I think if they got in that bad of shape,
another, larger company(again, probably Sony or Microsoft) would buy them up
very quickly. Square has too much name recognition and too many talented
workers to just disintegrate entrely, even under a mass
ive financial burden. For better or worse, Squaresoft will be with us in one
form or another for a long time to come...
Mud Pepper |
It seems to be the consensus that Square's developers will quickly
be integrated into something else in a worst case scenario, and that is
something to be thankful for. Still, I think it's important to realize
that the very thing that may doom Square is the very thing that makes
them such a worthwhile developer - their experimental, cutting edge
games. For my money, no one else is pushing at the RPG envelope the
same way that Square is, and if they were to crash and burn I'm not
sure anyone else would attempt to take their place, regardless of who
assimilated the individual programmers. Something to think about, at
least.
| Nobody mocks Dewprism
and gets away with it! |
|
Chris,
Before I go into my opinion on Square's demise, let me just say that I
disagree the every non-RPG square releases sucks. Games like Einhander and
Tobal #2 were great games that had hardly any RPG elements. The Bouncer
appears to be getting rave reviews from what I hear.
Anyway, Square has a problem on its hands. After much international
success after FFVII, Square decided that it could do anything, and it
certainly tried. Its gone to handhelds and worked on subjects that most game
plots wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole.
However, with all this game making, Square has had to spend increasing
amounts of money and spread its talented teams increasingly thin. This in
effect causes many of their games to be multimillion dollar crap. Not all,
not even most, but many. So, while games like Chrono Cross and Vagrant Story
are commercial successes, other games, like Dewprism or Parasite Eve 2 (which
really should've stuck to the original formula that made the first game fun)
are sad failures.
It used to be in the game industry that for a game to be a great
success, it just needed to sell around 100,000 copies. Unfortunately, with
all the crazy marketing blitzes (a look-alike Aya contest? C'mon...), Square
drains its resources.
And that's the problem Square is facing now. Its spent so much money
in the late 1990's to try to do everything that now its on the verge of going
bankrupt if every game (and the movie) does not bring in hundreds of millions
of dollars.
Do I think Square is going to disappear? No, but I do think that in a
few years, Square will have a major crash, due to one production or another
being a dismal failure, leaving it nearly broke, with only the resources to
make one RPG at a time like it used to before the success of the SNES Final
Fantasies.
Mike Drucker
|
Not much to add here, except to reiterate that I thought Dewprism
was great fun for what it was - a lighthearted title with great
gameplay and superb characterization. Mint will be showing up shortly
to kick your ass, Mike.
Besides, I get the impression that as a whole Square did quite well
with the Summer of Adventure, so at least as far as side titles are
concerned they can take a few duds. (Which I'm not even sure any particular
game qualified as, I'm just pointing it out.)
Closing Comments:
They're now saying this election may not be over until next
Tuesday, or Friday, or well beyond that. Oh well, at least I've got
Zelda to play in the meantime. Another good reader suggested topic for
tomorrow, so write in - I'd love to see the same kind of response that
I got today. Later.
-Chris Jones, knows that while
Al Gore was seriously wounded, his soul still burns.
(Props to Daniel for coming up with that one.)
| Topic for Friday,
11/10/2000 |
| My question for readers is several-fold and regards translation in a game:
What do you think constitutes a good translation? How large of an effect
do you think translation has on the overall game experience? Which game
struck you as having the best translation ever - or worst? Ted Woolsey -
knight of valor or goof-up? Are fan translations better than official ones?
Come on, speak up, folks!
--Cidolfas, the Guru of Mostly Useless Factoids
|
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