Coming to America - April 13th, 2000 - Chris Jones
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed within this column are those of
the participants and the moderator, and do not necessarily reflect those of the GIA. There
is coarse language and potentially offensive material afoot. One man alone cannot fight
the future, unless it's me, in which case the future is toast. Don't say we didn't warn
you.
Until I saw the story on RPG Maker today, I really didn't care much about if the software
would make it over here or not. Generally speaking, I'd rather play something than make
it, or read something than write it. But just as this column proved me wrong about
writing, a little consideration of the potential RPG Maker has convinced me that this
upcoming release might be a Good Thing.
One of the real weaknesses I've always seen the console market as having is the
inability for independent amateurs to make small-but-promising games. As much as I love
mainstream RPGs, I've always been conscious of the fact that they seemed to be put through
too much in the way of committee-think. Broad creative visions could be seen in games, but
there was little room for individual quirks to come out. I never got the impression that a
game was the result of one and only one author's singular ideas; there was no J. Michael
Straczynski of video games, in other words.
But RPG Maker has the power to change that. Even if 99.99% of the games people make
suck, I'll wager there's at least one proto-Sakaguchi out there that can make something
truly memorable out of tile-based landscapes and dialog boxes. There won't be any limits
on what people can make, and while we'll probably see plenty of excess profanity,
hopefully we'll also see some truly intelligent, mature games. Not that I'll wade through
all the crap to get to that one gem in the garbage, I'll leave it up to you folks, my
loyal readers, to inform me of what's truly remarkable. Life is good when you have your
own letters column.
This is the song that never ends |
Heigh ho, and welcome once again to another opinionated beating inflicted
on the dying horse that is the 2D gaming thread! I'll try to keep this brief so as not
to be pinpointed once more as a 2D LOVING, 3D HATING NAZI, but I have to disagree with the
letter yesterday that said developers will continue to create 2D games solely for the sake
of visual style. First of all, the art analogy was flawed - Picasso painted in his
cubistic style as an attempt to reproduce a 3D object's nature on a 2D surface (the
canvas). I would liken that more to isometric games like Mario RPG, which also is an
attempt to mimic true depth on a flat surface (the TV screen).
But I'm not writing merely to justify the thousands of dollars I had to spend on
compulsory art history classes. No! I also have a point (or two) to make about 2D games
vs. 3D games.
First is the style thing. It's hard to deny that games like Soul Calibur and Dead or
Alive 2 look very good in motion... but this weekend I finally had a personal encouter
with Street Fighter III for the first time. Watching Elena sway back and forth, or some
random beefy guy's muscles ripple and his clothes wrinkle and flex, I realized even the
best 3D characters animate like robots. However, a lot of it is a matter of presentation -
Chrono Cross' characters look almost sprite-like during exploration scenes, despite being
made entirely of polygons. HOW CAN THIS BE!? the masses scream. Well, it's very simple.
The camera for almost every scene in the game stays away from the Resident Evil-style
cinematics and maintains a more "classic RPG" distance from the surroundings, so
the characters are always pretty small. That lets the characters appear to be more
detailed and animated even on the Playstation's hardware. Of course, in sweeping, up-close
combat it's hard to deny they're all big slabs of mo-capped triangles, but c'est la vie.
The real advantage of 2D games is that they PLAY differently than 3D games. At least
with current interface technology. A hyper-spastic fighting game like Marvel vs. Capcom is
impossible - or at least impractical - in full 3D, because that extra axis would
complicate matters and detract from the point of the game (stringing together stupidly
huge combos and finally beating that snot-nosed 10-year-old who keeps embarrassing you).
Ever played a 3D Tetris variant? Yuck. Look at how Megaman converted into 3D - the tight
platforming action of the original games turned into an exploration/RPGish format. I love
both styles, and I'm glad Capcom had the sense to say, "Well, we really can't make
this kind of game in true 3D... so let's make it play differently." I wish more
developers would know when each format was appropriate (cough cough Konami), because
presentation, graphics and control affect gameplay.
Well, drat. This wasn't short after all.
Edited to 499,
J. Parish |
I agree with your assertion that 2D and 3D play differently, but I don't think it's
impossible to duplicate the frantic pace of a Street Fighter combo in 3D. It just hasn't
been done yet.
As for SF3 animating better than Soul Calibur, I'll buy that argument, with some
exceptions. 2D animated art is more stylized than the current super-realistic 3D models,
and thus can lend itself better to certain exaggerations, like swaying fighters and
rippling muscles. But just as 2D evolved from crude ASCII art (Space War) to unique,
individualistic characters (just about any recent Capcom 2D fighter) I think we can expect
to see some sort of evolution in 3D models. Models with "cartoon" textures, like
in Fear Effect or Futurama, are a start, but it could probably go a lot further.
I admit, I don't know how to give 2D style or play style to any 3D game right now, but
that's what development is for. Yes, this is totally unfounded speculation, but I suspect
that by the PS2 is obsolete, we'll all feel a lot differently about what 3D is and isn't
capable of than we do now. And fortunately, given the average half-life of video games
letters columnists, I probably won't be here to take the blame if I'm wrong. Like I said,
life is sweet.
All of you RPG-obsessed freaks... |
Yo Chris, I wanted to chime in on the whole N64 issue. I don't think
the right question to ask is whether the N64 is alive or dead, it is better to ask is a
success? The answer to that question depends on who you talk to....
I bet if you ask Nintendo, the answer is a resounding yes, because for a system that
was a little technologically handicapped to begin with, it's enjoyed a great deal of
success and produced some excellent games.
If you are in Nintendo's target audience (which probably 90% of the readers of the GIA
are NOT), then you are probably very satisfied with your N64 and glad you own it. The N64
produced many classics (Mario 64, Zelda 64, Diddy Kong Racing, Goldeneye 64, Super Smash
Bros., and so on) that were kid friendly, teen fun, and adult approved. The controller of
the N64 is still the best out there for consoles. Nintendo still does a great job
marketing and selling this older technology (see how many units of DK64 they sold last
year) and now they have the Pokemon phenomenon to push on the N64.
However, for all you RPG-obsessed freaks, you are probably mad you bought it. Well too
bad...and what did you expect? I think you N64-bashers underestimate the power of the
mass-market (just check and see how Chris's least favorite band, *N Sync, is doing these
days :^) Not that Nintendo has anything to do with boy bands, but the marketing idea is
the same: target a niche and become THE player in the niche. Nintendo did a very smart
thing in limiting the primary scope of their games to have kid appeal, because when the
Dolphin comes out, you'll all get a quick reminder that Nintendo is not dead at all. It
probably won't have Final Zero Front Combat Fantasy Mission XII from Rhombus SoftTM, but
if it has a Mario game it'll sell like hotcakes.
Daniel, proud owner of Snickers, the boot-whizzing dog |
In the interests of full disclosure, I should mention that Daniel is in fact a good
friend of mine in the real world. However, I'm printing his letter because it has a very
unique perspective in contrast to what I get from just about everybody else. Admittedly,
Daniel is a buttoned down corporate type who's been seduced by the dark side (marketing)
to the extent that he values profit over quality (and that remark's gonna cost me a black
eye the next time we meet). Yet he is an example of a demographic that's quite different
from RPG players, but still quite real and powerful. Daniel is a (say it with me) CASUAL
GAMER. Other people have alluded to the existence of this rare specimen, but this may be
the first actual instance we've ever seen in the column.
He's more interested in Super Smash Bros. than Soul Calibur, more interested in Diddy
Kong Racing than Gran Turismo, more interested in working through Zelda over a period of
several months than doing 10 hour marathons of FFT. It doesn't make any sense to me, or
probably some of you, but he wants a system he can mess around on for a few minutes, and a
system that has games he can sit his kids down in front of in a couple of years. And for
him, the N64 is that system.
I think he botched a couple of points, tho. Despite Nintendo's dumbass attitude toward
RPGs around the time the N64 launched, given the SNES's track record it wasn't
unreasonable to expect some relatively hard core games for the new system. Turok and
Shadows of the Empire were enough in the early days for me to think something like Ogre
Battle 3 would be along Real Soon Now. Instead, the system got deluged with driving games,
sports games, and bad platformers (with the exception of Banjo Kazooie) and I got burned.
And there are enough really good platformers out these days (Rayman 2) for a new Mario
game to be... less enticing than it once was. I'm sure the Japanese haven't forgotten the
N64 launching with Mario and 2 other titles, then nothing for weeks. In short, while
Daniel's got some valid points, and while Nintendo would be foolish to prefer his money
over ours (or vice versa), being warm and cuddly isn't enough for a system to survive
anymore.
This man is a fraud |
I can kill goldifsh with the power of my mind. -Skanky, the 9th dwar |
Foolish Skanky, everyone knows that the 9th dwarf isn't Skanky, but Sexy. Given that
you're wrong about the dwarves, I tend to doubt the goldfish thing as well.
There's this series called "Final
Fantasy"... |
You should read Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card. It rocks. Speaker for
the Dead, the second of that same series, is also pretty good, and Xenocide (the third) is
ok but focused much differently than the first two. Cool total story, but three very
different books. There is a fourth book too, but I have never seen it. And then there is
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (Douglass Adams). If you haven't read that five-book
"trilogy" by now, I feel sorry for you. CO |
While I appreciate the thought, please give me a little credit, folks. Asking me if
I've read Ender's Game is like asking me if I've played Zelda, and asking me if I've read
Douglas Adams (I have: everything he's ever written, including Last Chance to See and The
Meaning of Liff) is like asking me if I've seen The Simpsons. We can talk literature if
you want, but chances are I've already been there, done that.
3DO lives! (No, not really.) |
Greetings Chris, Well, in my opinion there were two American-released
3DO titles that were rightfully considered to be "console RPGs."
First off, we have Guardian War; essentially a strategy RPG where you control a plump
swordsman who resembles the characters from Bomberman. It was released in the U.S. in 1994
and published by Panasonic. I'm not positive on the developer however. Monotinous as it
gets, you frequent stages that by and large, look nearly the same (there were a few neat
looking areas however). The story was laughable, with the standard "rescue"
theme in place throughout the game. The game did have the best magical spell effects on a
console game at the time, and as I remember, my friends and I were complete astonished the
first time we saw it in person. How times change...
As for the second console RPG, Lucienne's Quest, also published in the U.S. by
Panasonic and released as far as I know, in 1995. Admittedly, I only vaguely recall what
was to be a somewhat overhyped Gamefan Magazine review of this game. The gameplay fit into
more of a traditional RPG, as well as the story of Lucienne. I seem to recall that it was
developed by a decent Japanese game company, but for the life of me I haven't the patience
to dig out my 3DO system and games, nor my box of Gamefan Magazines that I have in storage
(every single one from the first issue through 1999 sadly enough).
Lucienne's Quest was most definitely ported to the Sega Saturn in Japan a year later,
and was met with great disappointment. As it turns out, there were next to no solid
improvements, even graphically (some claimed that the 3DO version was superior in nearly
every way), and it met an abysmal game-shelf life.
I suppose I could've researched a bit, and discovered who the developers were, but that
would take the immense pleasure out of anticipating what ever happened to those
unfortunate blokes. As for who was solely responsible for making the games, I can only
imagine that they were immediately killed, grinded up and used for fertilizer... at least
that's my story, and I'm sticking with it, even after proved otherwise!
Regards,
mendou |
A lot of people gave me answers on about 3DO RPGs, but this was the most well-rounded
answer I got. For the record, Lucienne's Quest was developed by Micro Cabin, who later
developed Street Sk8ter. I had entirely forgotten about Guardian's Quest, major props to
those who bought it up.
As for the reason I bought this up, well partially it's academic curiosity. Obscure
RPGs on dead also-ran systems are interesting for what they might have been, much like
looking at Australopithecus Robustus or giant sloth remains. Also, Lucienne's Quest was
one of my 3 most obscure RPGs on my DA application, but I'd never actually played it. I
was curious to see how much info you could dig up, which, as it turns out, was quite a
lot. Good job to all concerned.
The laying on of Shakespeare has great powers |
Chris, first I heard you liked the Backstreet Boys, but I was too busy
playing FM3, so I decided to wait until you would come out and proclaim it was a lie. Then
you admitted you liked polka. Polka? "What the hell is wrong with him???", I
thought, but I was still busy trying to replay FM3 (one of my memory cards got fried last
weekend, and guess what the bulk of the saves on it consisted of? I had to start from
scratch!!!). I figured this was a passing phase. But it's Thursday, and you haven't
retracted your declared fandom of all things polka, so
"Son, this will hurt me more than it hurts you"
<kisses Chris on the forehead, while clutching a misterious object, concealed behind
her>
TWAAAACK!!!!
Consider yourself lucky, Chris. The best I could do was this dusty copy of
Shakespeare's complete works!!! I could not find my baseball bat, so you better come to
your senses before I do
Well, now that we got that out of the way, what do you think of the fact that RPG Maker
is finally hitting the U.S.? I know people who are litterally drooling at the mere
thought. I'm not one of them. Wasn't that first released in Japan over 2 years ago? And I
understand it got pretty lame after a few hours back then...
Princess Jemmy (who is taking time out from her FM3 obsession, so you better feel
honored, pal) |
For the record, I don't like polka as such. By and large I like relatively cool bands,
like the rest of you. Watching Lawrence Welk is like the musical equivalent of a
traditional sauna - sweat your ass off and then dive into a pool of freezing water. It's
the shock that's important as much as anything.
To continue my rant about RPG Maker, at the very least I'd expect it to fill some
niches that people seem to want filled. People who want heavy-duty experience building 2D
RPGs can design them themselves, or play other people's. People who want intricate stories
or specific follow-ups can do the same - you could build your own Hyperion RPG, frex, and
I'd expect to see a lot of unofficial sequels to Final Fantasy 6. We could see something
like a combination of fanfic and fan art - fan RPGs.
I'm aware that there have been other 2D tile-based RPG makers on the PC, and even on
the Palm Pilot, but I don't think traditional console RPGs translate particularly well to
either system. Hopefully between the widespread availability of the Playstation and the
ability to transfer games easily with the Dex Drive and Internet, we should see a much
bigger and more potent RPG-making community with RPG Maker.
And I'm sorry for your game loss, that's not a fate I'd wish on anyone. Except someone
playing Beyond the Beyond, perhaps it would convince them to stop playing.
Miyamoto is at least a demi-god |
Chris I'll make this short and simple. Sure, programmers are driven to
near orgasmic fits by the enwest and the greatest, but the programmers don't get to decide
what the style of the game will be. Believe me, if Miyamoto-san decided he wanted another
2d Metriod, his programmers aren't going to throw out a world of 4 billion polygons a
second. They'll make it 2d. Its all up to the designers.
Justin Freeman |
That's a little unfair, I think if Miyamoto-san wanted the sky to turn green there's a
good chance it might happen. But rare exceptions like Miyamoto aside (wasn't he an artist
of some sort before he started designing games?) most game designers were programmers
themselves before they started designing. By and large, I don't think designers are any
less prone to fits of tech envy than anyone else.
Saturnz Return |
Chris, Obviously you never owned a Saturn. To say that it's worse than
the n64 is just plain laughable. I bought a Saturn a year before its de facto demise, and
have never ever regretted it. It gave me great RPG's like Grandia, Panzer Dragoon Saga
(The only game that can rival Xenogears, IMO), Magic Knight Rayearth, and Shining Force 3.
The shooters are absolutely unparalleled, with Galactic Attack, Sokyugurentai, Radiant
Silvergun, Panzer Dragoon 1 and 2, Thunderforce V, Silhouette Mirage, and Galaxy Force 2
Special Edition. And of course, you can't forget the arcade perfect capcom fighting games.
I have roughly 50 games for the system, all of which range in the good to excellent
category. Up until now, I've played my Saturn much, much more than my n64 and PSX
combined. Please don't dismiss this letter as moronic fanboy ranting, because the system
really does deserve more credit than it gets. Yes, it was a fiscal failure, but that
doesn't mean that it wasn't a great system with some of the best games around.
-Monkeymage |
More than a few people were upset that I lumped the Sega CD and Saturn in with the CDi
and 3DO. I'll admit that there were some games released for both systems - I'd buy a copy
of Panzer Dragoon Saga on sight and then a Saturn to go along with it, based on what I've
heard. Working Designs' legacy on both systems is also noteworthy. But while the Saturn's
not as bad as CDi, it's not nearly as strong as the N64. Just prior to the introduction of
the Dreamcast, Sega had a miniscule 1% of the US console market, and while PDS is a
stunningly good game, I haven't heard anybody claim that it approaches the earthshaking
status of Mario 64 or Zelda 64.
OK Television |
Hey Yo, The Syphon Filter 2 commercial is among the best commercials
on TV right now. O yeah, and they BETTER bring that FFIX-Coke commercial here, it's just
plain cool.
--NightTransfer |
While I think the Syphon Filter 2 commercial is quite good, I don't think it's good
enough to make me by the game. On the other hand, I'm quite serious when I say I'd buy
more Coke if they started showing the FF9 commercial. Which brings up an interesting
question: will the use of game characters as product spokesmodels ever extend into the
mainstream?
Yes, Mario, Pikachu, and even Link have been used to sell things to younger
demographics, but the only promotion I can think of that used game characters to sell to a
general audience is Crash Bandicoot and Pizza Hut, and that didn't exactly make me want to
rush out and grab some 'za. On the other hand, if Solid Snake told me to buy Brut I'd
probably have no choice in the matter. So what do you think, peoples? Are we gonna see
Mega Man selling cars during football games, or are we as gamers too narrow a group for
advertisers to bother with?
There's only one kind of help I can give you
now |
Britney Spears's song is stuck in my head. ...
HELP ME! |
May God have mercy on his soul.
Closing Comments:
Well, a lot of good letters today. I would have liked to get more in depth on a lot of
those topics, but there was just too much ground to cover. And I doubt I've made it any
easier with that advertising thing. So send me whatever you want to follow up on, or even
something new if it's interesting enough. Catch you tomorrow.
-Chris Jones, late, and proud of it |
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