2D or not... no wait, don't hit me! - April 11th, 2000 -
Chris Jones
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed within this column are those of
the participants and the moderator, and do not necessarily reflect those of the GIA. There
is coarse language and potentially offensive material afoot. Gabe Logan vs. Solid Snake -
only the best accordion player will survive! Don't say we didn't warn you.
Hmm... Final Fantasy X demo disk. Final Fantasy X demo disk. Hmm...
I should be able to make some intelligent comment about that, but aside from the
obligatory "I'd sell my soul" joke (operators standing by, reasonable rates
available) nothing comes to mind. I suspect that the demo disk in question is for FFXI,
not X, since distributing such a disk to a large audience would be a better way of testing
an online title, and FFX doesn't seem to have all that much in the way of online
abilities. But that's just half-assed speculation, and I'm not all that inclined to go
deeper, as it feels wrong to ponder two Final Fantasies in advance. Let's get past FFIX,
then we can talk about demo discs.
2D, but on steroids |
Dear Polka Jones: You gave an interesting topic, now let me give you
an answer.
Basically, there is most definitely the -potential- for 2D gaming to have a future on
next generation systems. However, for that to happen, those same 2D games will still have
to change in many ways, utilizing the power of the newer systems to improve their
graphics, even though they continue to use an older kind of design. A greater number of
frames of animation, lighting effects, etc., can all utilize the new hardware to
incredible effects (the recent Popolocrois II in Japan did just this on only the PSX, I
can't imagine what might be possible on the PS2...)
However, as you said in yesterday's column, things have to change to survive, and that
means 2D gaming as well. Developers of 2D games cannot allow themselves to believe that an
old presentation style (2D) is necessarily tied to the same graphics used to express it on
older systems. 2D has to use the power of the PS2 / Dreamcast / Nintendo / Whatever, to
create a 2D environment that is both innovative and exciting. Something that makes gamers
stop and say, "Hey, I never knew 2D could look that good!"
Does 2D have a future? Maybe. It all depends on the developers realizing that giving us
a dated graphic style doesn't mean giving us dated graphics, or a dated game. If they
understand this, then current console power can only enhance 2D games. If they fail, then
2D games are destined to seem more and more out of their time, until nobody remembers them
at all.
Lord Pendragon |
Very interesting, LP. I hadn't considered that the new systems might actually be able
to give us superior 2D graphics, as I pretty much tend to look at 2D as a nostalgia thing
these days. (Not that I don't like nostalgia.)
But what you suggest is certainly plausible, as a couple of companies have already used
existing platforms to give a unique 2D look - Saga Frontier 2's a prime example of this.
I'm not sure how lighting effects etc. would apply to things that aren't actually 3D
models, but perhaps you could have a game with 3D models that plays like a 2D platformer,
like Donkey Kong Country for the SNES, but actually rendered on the system.
Or perhaps some enterprising graphics coder out there can come up with something
completely unheard of, and make 2D the medium of choice once more. I'd pay good money to
see such a thing, so developers take note.
He's gotta have it |
I'll be blunt. I need 2D for my sanity. 3D games on the whole are too
damn slow and exploratory, and if I play ONE MORE game that demands I find 100 trinkets
hidden behind walls the camera won't cross, I'm going to hurl my Gxtv out the frickin'
window. SonicPanda |
Bad design and 3D games. All too common an occurrence, and surely a source of strife
between the 2D and 3D communities. But bad design is hardly limited to 3D games. Those of
you who remember the boom days of the NES will also remember the slew of third rate
adventure and platform games with any number of problems: poor collision detection,
slowdown, impossible difficulty levels, pathetically easy difficulty levels, indistinct
graphics that made it hard to tell what was real and what was background, and the list
goes on. Camera and control problems in 3D games are very irritating, but, I think, no
more so than what we had in the past.
But at the same time, I can empathize with your desire for something simple. I've been
playing games for so long now that any kind of 2D platformer is second nature to me - give
me a gun, or a sword, or a bionic grapple, and I'm kicking ass with the best of them. It's
almost a Zen experience, and it's not something I'd like to see gone in the future.
What you are about to hear is a lie |
Hello Doub... OH MY GOD, PUT DOWN THE GUN! Ok, I admit it, no one
reads your column ,Chris. Under various guises I've written every single letter you've
received, but I didn't want to. I was forced to by Drew, he said that he'd tell Square to
stop making games, and damn it I need a monthly fix. I'm sorry, Chris. I never meant to
hurt you! Please forg.. BANG BANG Sploosh...
TGCid |
It's not true, none of it. In fact, you didn't read the above letter. There is no one
named TGCid, and there never was. That's not blood on the floor, that's, er... ketchup. I
spilled it last night off of my french fries. Yeah, that's the ticket. And Drew would
never do such a thing, right, buddy?
[A glassy-eyed Drew emerges into the light, drooling slightly and mumbling
incoherently. Chris takes hold of his wrist and "waves" to the crowd, then
pushes Drew back behind the scenes.]
So you see, there's no problems here, right folks? Just keep on moving and there won't
be any trouble. Good night, all.
There's very little meat in these gym mats |
(define GAR
(lambda (l) You bring up, evidently inadvertently, an interesting source of confusion
among the super-'leet, "old-school", "golden age" fetish RPG nazis. I
was discussing the Lunar remake with a friend of mine, and I mentioned that I didn't find
the game aesthetically pleasing at all. It went something like this:
Me: "I thought the Lunar remake was sort of ugly, really."
Him: "That's just because you hate 2D games."
Me: "Actually, I love 2D games."
Him: "Huh?"
My qualm was not the artistic style. It was not the lack of a third axis. It was most
certainly not the anime cutscenes or any other such GAR. My qualm with many recent 2D
games (and, digressing a bit, with Final Fantasy as well) is that there are two things I
see as inexcusable in any game on a CD: tile-based maps and synthesized music. Modern 2D
games should look something like Seiken Densetsu 4. Hand-painted, 3D rendered, whatever.
It doesn't matter. Just don't give me tile-based buildings unless you're hindered by some
god-forsaken cartridge. And with all that storage space, you can afford to bring some real
instruments into the bargain. It's not as though we're still stuck in the "golden
age" (the age when games were censored, abridged, and all-around truncated before any
sort of US release (and sometimes even Japanese)) or anything.
(GAR (cdr l))))
- Zen |
By and large I'm all for progress, but in this case I have to stick up for Lunar. If
someone was expecting us to swallow tile or tile-like games as new products that's one
thing. But Lunar is a very definite attempt to cash in on old school urges. Working
Designs has a very specific niche targeted with these games (Square as well, with FFA) and
it does very well by exploiting that niche to the fullest. It's a reissue, and it's not
fair to expect it to play against the cutting edge.
Personally I find Lunar redeemable because it has a good story, a relatively
interesting battle system for an RPG, and a great translation. But there's no excuse to
complain that it looks old school, because that's part of the package. It's like
complaining that there's no four star restaurants on a camping trip. Deal with it or don't
buy it, end of discussion.
Throw me a frickin' bone, here |
Chris, Regarding the future of 2D, I think that companies will turn
out large masses of 3D games, and, sitting in the corner, will be a small group of diehard
2Ders, who will complain that there isn't any more good 2D gaming, until along comes one
2D game, which they will immediately devour and be content for another 3 months or so, and
then they will resume complaining. Good lord, that was one long run on sentance.
I meant no 2D fans offense by this letter.
Jon |
Sound pretty accurate to me, not entirely unlike the situation we have now. And if
you're an old schooler who's content to live on the dribs and drabs of the occasional 2D
game thrown out, that's cool. Myself, I'll be gorging on the 3D buffet being served
elsewhere, so see you around.
I name the CDs that make the whole world sing |
Chris, Thank you so much! I must say you are the man, the man, and the
man all rolled up into one! You beat out gilgamesh, seeing as Gilgamesh never saved me
from insanity before, while you just did! The song, Prelude, the disk Final Fantasy Pray.
I never would've found it without you. Again, thank you from my sanity.
--Brian W. |
Well, to all of those who wanted a final answer regarding this question from yesterday,
here it is. And no thanks are necessary, good citizen, it's all in a day's work for a
superhero like myself! (Chris smiles cheesily, and waits for the end credits to role so he
can get out of this stupid costume.)
2D lives! (in my hands) |
Okay, so the PlayStation2 is an unholy beast of a polygon pusher (despite
the games not being too good, but I digress), and the last semi-prominent 2D game to have
been released on a console was the PlayStation port of Silhouette Mirage. But despite the
looks of it, the PS2 is not 2D's death knell. In fact, Konami just last week released
Gradius III&IV, a compilation of, well, Gradius III and IV, both 2D games, on the PS2.
2D continues to live on in other parts of the industry. Ever seen a handheld title?
There's nary a polygon to be found! All of the games for both the GBC and the Neo*Geo
Pocket Color are 2D, and pretty good stuff at that; Metal Slug alone is more fun than most
games released in the past year or two on consoles have been. And let's not forget that
the Game Boy is the best-selling hardware unit of all time (10 years and still going
strong). The new Metal Gear game is coming out on Game Boy Color: I think that alone says
it all. |
Most of what I've read about Gradius III and IV suggest that they were quick attempts
by Konami to get any kind of Playstation title out the door, and haven't been very well
received as a result.
However, I do you think you have a point as to handheld gaming. I'm not personally a
big fan of handheld systems, as there are other things I'd rather do on a trip, such as
read a book. But from what I have seen, even if you do have the graphical firepower to put
together polygons on the very small screen (i.e. Gameboy Advance) 2D is still the display
style of choice. I personally wouldn't stare at a tiny LCD screen for hours on end to
satisfy a 2D craving, but it should be an option for those among you who are truly
desperate, you poor, damned fools.
Gone and buried |
I'm going to make this as short as possible. The old days are dead.
Yes, FF4 had spirit. There was something about the game that motivated you. No one can
accurately tell you what the drive was, but it was there.
But people, the old days are gone, as much as I (and others) may hate to admit it. The
days of pixels duking it out on the screen to get the medicine to save such and such are
over. Today's world of video gaming has changed; They made bigger and badder systems.
Bigger and badder = Graphic whore games = profit in the minds of the company. I mean look
at it this way, story generally will not introduce a spectator to buy the game. If a games
40 hours long there's no way he'll be able to judge how good the story is from a glance.
But Graphics and Sound? They're thrown at the viewer.
And on similar points, summarized of course, the days of originality are far and few
between; We've had so many different genres and games and stories that it's hard NOT to be
a little cliche when designing a story/setting IMO. Also Chris, your fashion sense is
abomidiable. Learn to not match Hot Pink shorts with a blue T-shirt. Oh and one final
thing, as much as you may not like to think it, it takes quite a few people a lot of time
to make a game, and quality is always cut to meet deadlines. It's like Oil and water
really, One's tryign to make a decent game, the otehrs trying to sell it. It's not fair,
but it's business. I'm sure FF8 could have been even more spectacular had it been released
a month or two later, but that's not smart business now is it?
- Eddie
P.S. I loved FF8 for the record, and if FF9 is half the game FF8 was, it should be
great :) |
Um, I don't wear shorts, ever. I think you've been having those disturbing dreams about
me again, Eddie, and like I said before, I'm flattered but not interested. At all. Please
just let this thing drop, and don't make me take out a restraining order on you.
I'm a software developer in the real world, so I know a bit about the interplay between
marketing and development. Square strikes me as one of those rare companies that has it
balanced just right, in that they always give a very clear and consistent message with
their marketing, but at the same time turn out big projects that are technically flawless.
Yes, translations are sometimes lousy, and smaller projects may not be perfectly
programmed (FF6's emulation, frex) and you may disagree about some of the artistic choices
made, but from a software standpoint, FF8 looked just about perfect to me. I can't see
that more time would have done anything except made me more impatient for the game.
I don't think you're getting the picture, here |
This line is tapped, so I'll be brief. The Matrix has you, Chris. |
Ok, let's review. My job title is Double Agent. Double AGENT. I am not one of you
freaky haute couture let's-save-the-world-from-the-evil-machines rebels, I AM The Matrix.
I'm one of those guys that takes over the bodies of perfectly innocent drones and attempts
to kill you people when you get out of line. What part of this do you not understand? Now
stop calling this freaking number, and let me get back to work!
Closing Comments:
Something new for tomorrow, topic-wise, I think. Even now there's a few new letters in
my mailbox regarding 2D, so if you've got some terribly important point to make, send it
in. But otherwise, why don't we take a look at the black sheep of the gaming market, the
N64. (Black sheep! Get it? Because the console's black and... ah, never mind.)
Perfect Dark is gonna be out soon, as is Ogre Battle 3, the new Zelda, and maybe one or
two other good titles. But between the RPG deluge this summer and the PS2 launching this
fall, not to mention the brave new world of online console gaming, is the N64 dead meat,
or can it hang on long enough to see in the Dolphin era? Let's hear it from you good
folks. Later.
-Chris Jones, "Look, I've got the cheap black suit and everything!" |
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