The Home Economics Story - March 28th, 2000 - Chris Jones
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed within this column are those of
the participants and the moderator, and do not necessarily reflect those of the GIA. There
is coarse language and potentially offensive material afoot. But what would Mom and Dad
say? Who knows, they only speak German! Don't say we didn't warn you.
The word of the people is manifest in today's column. Lots of letters were sent in, and
just about all of them were serious discussions. Suggesting Phantasy Star Online yesterday
may have been redundant, because I also got lots of good stuff on anime stylings and
westerners in RPGs, as well as debate on the worth of menus in games today. Thus, today's
column will be relatively serious in tone, and will start real soon now, because you've
got a lot of reading ahead of you.
| Mad About Menus, starring Helen Hunt |
| Chris - You stated that you thought menu-driven rpg's were going out -
I don't agree. I have been playing Rpg's since Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy. I happen
to believe that the only two overwhelming improvement's on the whole rpg formula has been
the introduction of better and better story lines, and of course the CG and intricate
detail of real time graphics. I believe that the best Rpg's, must rely on menu's in order
to give player's the number of customizations to their character's necessary for quality
development. If you need examples, try playing Baldur's Gate without pausing the game -
it's a bitch isn't it! You have many character's to control and with each, you have 5-10
choices as to what they can do. If they had implemented a menu to choose, it would not
take away from the game, in fact, would greatly improve the pace and control. Also, the
greatest formula for an rpg has always been FF, plain and simple. If they changed the
battle system's - they would be making a really big mistake.
- Scott |
Ok, perhaps I should have been a little more specific about why I don't like menus. I
too have been playing RPGs since Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy, and I think I can say
I've enjoyed them as much as anyone else out there. What I don't like is the basic battle
structure, which as many have pointed out boils down to: "Get into battle, fight,
fight, fight, heal, fight, win, move a bit down the corridor, repeat process." Maybe
I'm nuts, but that's boring. I don't play games to be bored. When the battles are
interesting, I don't mind menus - boss battles are often fun, as are battles in FFT, where
the structure changes to "Ok, you fight him, then go over there, where he can't get
you, and where you'll be out of the way of the spell that she's gonna cast..." You
can argue that games like Secret of Mana are the exact same thing as far as fight fight
heal, but being in control of the battle directly definitely adds something. When playing
SoM I never felt that I was more limited than in Final Fantasy 4, battle wise. To the
contrary, I felt that I was able to do everything in the latter game, and then some. And
no Fight command on a menu.
Admittedly, FFT and maybe Baldur's Gate (never played it) can't scale up from the SoM
control scheme, at least not without becoming entirely different games. And that's fine,
because as I said the battles are interesting. But as for standard FF-type RPGs, I don't
see any reason why a more realtime method of control couldn't be successfully introduced.
Squall's shoulder button press gunblade and the charging of GFs in FF8 makes me think that
Square is also working along these lines.
| When the frog speaks, people listen |
| Dearest Homeslice, I would have to say Justin Freeman's assessment of
"Anglo" character design in RPGs is correct (except the 8-bit limitations stuff;
I don't really think that's a factor). As you stated, anime is indeed the predominant
visual inspiration for Japanese games. And you will discover that in most manga and anime
- or at least the mainstream stuff, barring a few exceptions like the works of Katsuhiro
Otomo - Japanese characters look very much like us pale folks overseas. This can be
attributed to a few things:
1. As Justin mentioned, Japanese is quite racially homogenous. Unlike your home town o'
Austin, where whites and blacks and Hispanics are very intermingled, there's far less
racial diversity in Japan's insular society. So people there are more likely to see
characters as reflecting themselves, whether or not the ink lines match the reality.
2. Disney is a HUGE influence on anime and manga (stemming from Disney's influence on
Osamu Tezuka, who pretty much laid the ground for everything afterwards). So characters
tend to draw from Disney's general aesthetics, although ironically enough Disney's been
dipping from the anime well lately. Feedback loop!
If you watch much anime, you'll notice Westerners are distinguished by having bulbous
noses, large builds and hairy arms. Really. And if you see an Asian-looking character in
anime, typically that character is from China, Vietnam or another non-Japanese Asian
country. As for depictions of blacks, they range from great (Kiros Seagill, for instance)
to grotesque racial charicatures that would have caused outrage in the US even 40 years
ago (check out Jim's character design in Square's Tom Sawyer for Famicom - it's almost
infuriating).
And of course, this often tranfers into games as well. To some degree, anyway.
Admittedly, characters in games like Final Fantasy Tactics, which clearly take place in a
pseudo-Europe, tend to look pretty much like characters in every other game. Although
FFT's characters were predominantly blond, which is another visual cue that says
"Hey! Western folk! Right here!"
Not that I'm an expert on this subject by any stretch of the imagination, but I do my
homework. Anyone interested in the nuts-n-bolts should check out of the most informative
books ever written on the subject (and one of my favorite books of any kind), Dreamland
Japan by Frederick L. Schodt. Good stuff, kiddos.
Well, that's it for me. I'm goin' to bed.
J. Parish
PS, you're off to a great start, sir. Thanks for not being a total moron. |
You might want to keep reading the column before making a decision about my moronic ways.
That said, I can't argue much with what you're saying. Cultural identity issues could
certainly lead someone to belive that a long-legged big-breasted blonde schoolgirl
accurately represents their ethnic group, the same way that American males might see
themselves in rugged cowboys out riding horses on the lonesome prarie. It also makes sense
that external ethinic groups would be protrayed as having exaggerated foriegn physical
charateristics: witness some of the Japanese sketches of Admiral Perry back in the 1850s.
I've seen shots of Square's Tom Sawyer, and while Jim looks incredibly bad, I'm not sure
that Square didn't pick that up from period drawings of African Americans.
While I've never got around to reading Dreamland Japan myself, I've heard it mentioned
many times as THE source for a working American understanding of Japan. You, go read it
now! Do as I say, not as I do.
| Stay away from that Neon Genesis man, it does
weird things to your head |
| Da da da D.A. (Beethoven tune) I'll keep this short:
Cinema - Citizen Kane
Gaming - Xenogears (story wise)
Need I say more?
The Savant
P.S. Don't take the last letter I wrote you seriously. At the time I was wasted on an
ancient bottle of Coca Cola. It contains phosphoric acid, y'know!
P.P.S. You can cut 'P.S.' out if you print this. Same goes for 'P.P.S.' |
For the moment I'm keeping just about all postscripts in, if only to teach you guys to
be careful of what you write, lest it end up all over the net. In this case, it's useful
to know that the above letter comes from a self-confessed "old coke" abuser.
Treat with skepticism.
While I like Xenogears very much, you have to be on something to suggest that Xenogears
even comes close to Kane. As many, many (many many many MANY) people have pointed out,
Xenogears' plot closely resembles that of the Neon Genesis Evangelion anime series, less
some depth. (No, you read that right, NGE is even weirder than Xenogears.) And while NGE
does do about as good a job as humanly possible in telling a believable story about giant
robots and the people inside them, it's not even in the same league, or country, or solar
system as Kane and his search for... well, just about everything.
| Limit of one per customer |
| Before I begin, just wanted to say good work so far. Now to the topic
you gave, Phantasy Star Online... This game is a source of concern for me. If successful,
I'm sure it's going to cause a trend of online console RPGs. And even if PSO isn't, the
fact that Final Fantasy X is also (likely) going online most certainly will. Why is this a
concern you may ask? It seems to me that online RPGing is the province of computers.
Asheron's Call, Everquest, Ultima Online, etc... are all computer RPGs which as we know
have little in common with their console brethren. My concern is that consoles will end up
*entirely* geared for online gaming, just like most gaming oriented PCs.
You see what I'm getting at? If I wanted to play games like this, I would buy them for
my computer (which is more than adequate to the task of running any existing game). I've
been buying consoles for 11 years for a reason, and that's because the games were
different. PC games fail to interest me. I don't know why, but I suppose it's mostly the
thought of having to constantly drop cash upgrading hardware to play the latest games. And
now that consoles are getting more expandable it may happen there too. Can we really call
them consoles anymore, or are they just watered down PCs?
The bottom line I'm getting at is that if I wanted to play some online RPGs with a
bunch of people I don't know and will never meet I'd get them for my PC and save the 300
bucks on a PSX2 or Dreamcast. If I want to play console style RPGs with my real life
friends, maybe I'm just better off sticking with the current PSX and waiting for the
online gaming trend to pass on by like so much technological flotsam.
-gaspump |
There's a whole month of columns in the PC vs. console debate, but I think you've got a
point. You've got a big difference in console RPGs and computer RPGs, a lot like sharks
and dolphins - external similarities, but major changes on the inside. In general I don't
regret playing Final Fantasy instead of Might and Magic, and I don't have any plans to
change that opinion in the future. In my mind the console RPG experience is a lot like a
movie or a book, in that it's more of a passive entertainment experience than an
interactive one. That sounds a little strange, but truthfully it's the cutscenes I
remember as much as anything when I think of great RPGs. Having to go out and interact
with total strangers in a messy, plotless RPG world doesn't sound that great at times.
But it cuts both ways - you reject the idea of PSO etc. because you don't want the
computer experience. However, there are probably a lot of people out there who would love
to have the computer experience, but can't afford it. Having an Ultima Online experience
at a Dreamcast price is probably very tempting for some people. So wait and see, it could
be single player RPGs that pass on by as flotsam.
| Selphie is actually Dave from Buffalo |
| Will PSO sacrifice story and cinematic by allowing four people to play at
once? Hell yes.
Allow me to explain with a hypothetical situation. Take an undisputed leader in story
and cinematic experience--say, FF8, for instance. Now, try to imagine one of the major
characters (we'll say Rinoa, for example) being played by some fifteen-year-old lamer in
Michigan named Roy.
"y0 d00dZ, im r1n0a! lEtZ k1ck s0mE a$$."
It just doesn't do a whole lot for plot, characterization, and dialogue.
Peace,
John Q. Gamer. |
Too true - one problem with online RPGs is that console RPG players may have to develop
actual ROLE PLAYING abilities. I think I'm prepared to give most console people the
benefit of the doubt, as most FF fans I'm familiar with have at least heard of White Wolf.
But the storytelling experience could be compromised if people act at all inappropriately,
and when you have to choose between playing FF9 by yourself or PSO with someone
called "sKi11z M8sT3r" you may opt to go solo.
| This is long, but really interesting |
| This is a question I have dealt with multiple times on Otakuworld.com
from whence I hail; the 'why' of anime, manga, and anime based games having a mostly
European cast of characters. The primary reason for this goes back to the very origins
of anime itself. Starting in the latter 1930's, and on just past World War 2, the direct
predecessor of anime and manga was the kamishibai show. Men on bicycles would travel from
town to town, carrying a wooden easel and frame, which could be set up to create a
makeshift ' mock movie theater'. The wooden frame, not unlike a picture frame, held dozens
and dozens of separate image cards, paintings that illustrated fantastic adventures. The
kamishibai performer would display the images one after another, and do all the voice and
sound effects from behind. He would also sell cheap candy, and this is how he would make
his living, doing shows for children and young adults. The first manga artists came from
this work, including Osamu Tezuka, the 'father of anime'.
Now the idea of kamishibai was to attempt to provide the thrill of the idea of a motion
picture, something amazing that the European gaijin had dreamed up, something that few
Japanese in that time could hope to personally see. Indeed, to this era, everything
European, American, was the fashion, because Japan was under imperial order to -in effect-
mimic all things European, including culture. The reason for this was that the Japanese
understood that to become a technological nation, merely learning how to build a few
machines was not enough...the success of technology depends on the entire infrastructure
of a society...and by imitating all things European, including clothing and culture,
entertainment and work habits, such an infrastructure could be developed in only one
generation.
Europeans were seen as astounding...because industrial society and technology were
very, very powerful compared to the mostly still pre-industrial Japan. Europeans became
the stuff of dreams, of the future, and were seen as adventurous and free in ways that
strict Japanese custom would never allow. Thus exotic, European faces dominated the tales
of giant robots and great adventures.
The end of World War Two, after which, for a while, America dominated the media and
life of Japan, regulating everything from television programs to which side of the street
to drive on, further established Europeans as dangerous, alien, exotic...and thus
interesting. This became the icing on the cake, making European faces the dominant faces
for most anime and manga. Europeans could believably do things the average Japanese
citizen would be horrified to do, and could believably be free from any guilt,
embarrassment, or shame. Gaijin could do anything, because they were alien...just as
Europeans in North America imagine that exotic Shao-Lin monks or Samurai...alien to the
European...can leap over buildings and destroy entire armies with a wave of a hand.
In short, the Japanese find us exotic, just as we do them, only they play with that
more openly than we do. Both sides are highly racist, but approach that racism slightly
differently, as is reflected in how we portray each other. In a nutshell, Europeans seem
to view the Asian world as exotic, magical, but ultimately impotent, and the Japanese seem
to portray the Europeans as unrestrained, roguish, uncultured, yet adventurous aliens that
are free from the constraints of acting like decent human beings. Europeans become the
fantasy of freedom from responsibility, in effect. Asians, to the European, become the
fantasy of personal power and the rapture of the exotic.
Neither side really sees the other clearly, but then, that would spoil the fantasy. The
reality is, of course, that both Japanese and North Americans are far more similar that
either would comfortably admit. Both sides have a vested interest in imagining the other
as alien.
Aliens are by definition, more exciting than family. Which is why European anime fans
give themselves Japanese sounding nick-names, and why anime is filled with European
characters.
Jennifer Diane Reitz
Otakuworld.com |
I'm not even sure how to start commenting on this.
So I won't.
| And your mother dresses you funny |
| Thycho Mantith can read people'th mindth! You can't rethitht! -
Toaster Thief |
No, Psycho Mantis can read memory cards. I can read memory cards. Big freaking deal.
Now when Psycho Mantis can beat the whole game by only breaking necks, I'll be
impressed.
| Hey, what if we try this "mouse"
thing |
| People who think menu-driven RPGs suck are the kind of people who are
responsible for America getting shafted when it comes to getting RPGs over here for so
long. Now it seems people are finally coming around and we are seeing much much higher
percentage of RPGs come this way. Let me ask you something. Who do you think drives the
RPG market and most influences it? Me? You? America as a whole? No it's the Japanese and
you may be sick of menu-driven RPGs but the Japanese aren't. Cows will learn how to fly
before menu-driven games like Dragon Quest are no more.
Also which kind of game do you have to think in and use your brain more? Games like
Dragon Quest/Warrior, Suikoden or FFTactics or do you think you use your brain more in a
game like Zelda 64 or Secret of Mana? The first group of course because games like Zelda
and SoM are mostly just hack and slash press the A button as fast you can type games (yes
I know I'm over simplifying things but you get the point). This is why turn-base RPGs like
Dragon Quest/Warrior have not been as popular over here as they have been in Japan.
American gamers in general don't like to think. I'm not saying American gamers in general
are more stupid but that when they pick up a video game they would rather play something
more mindless and less thought provoking than your typical Japanese gamer.
So I think it will be a dark day for video gaming when menu-driven RPGs are eliminated
but since the there is better chance of the earth self destructing and blowing up into
little bits I'm not that worried.
Pendy (that wacky, zany DQ/DW freak)
Maintainer of the Dragon Quest News Network |
Which game made me use my brain more, Suikoden or Zelda 64? Zelda 64, no question. Some
of those puzzles were fiendish, to say the least.
I strongly disagree with the idea (which more than a few people articulated) that not
liking menus translates into wanting simpler games. Yes, traditionally RPGs have been more
mentally challenging than side scrollers and the like, and because RPGs have been menu
based we tend to link the two together. But that's only because we've been trained
to think that way. When a newcomer (and yes, Americans more so than Japanese) criticizes
menus, (s)he's simply pointing out that there might be other ways to achieve the same
effect, something we might not be able to see because we're so deep into the subject.
Hey guys, maybe there are other ways to interact with a computer than typing in those
crazy little command lines!
As for Dragon Warrior, I suspect its days may be numbered. I know the position of DQ7
on Famitsu's wanted list, and I know that FF9's setting may be an attempt to tap into that
old school gaming market. But things have changed a lot since the last DQ game came out.
Had DQ7 released at the same time as FF7, things might be very different today, but as it
is the game is several years overdue and compared to what else is out on the market,
seriously outdated, near as I can tell. There's always the chance I'm wrong, but I'm going
to be very interested in seeing what happens when DQ7 hits Japan.
Closing Comments:
Wow, long column. Very, very high quality letters sent today, sorry I couldn't get to
everyone, but please keep it up. I'm not nearly so nuts as to suggest a topic for
tomorrow, as we'll probably still be discussing the stuff from today. Take it easy, and
adios.
-Chris Jones, about to enjoy menu-driven FM3 |
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