Disclaimer: The opinions expressed within this column are those of the participants and the moderator, and do not necessarily reflect those of the GIA. There is coarse language and potentially offensive material afoot. You're not really watching that, are you? Don't say we didn't warn you.

Your one-stop source for obscenity

EM, Since I'm so good at this, the following occurred in yesterday's column: Piss x 1 Shit x 2 Fuck x 3 Ass x 3 Bitch x 3 Hell x 4 Damn x 5 In light of the above, I have meticulously constructed the following statement; its sole purpose is amusement. Enjoy: Holy hell! Damn, that fucking disclaimer got the shit beat out its ass yesterday. Ain't no way in hell that damn bitch is going to piss straight for weeks! It was kicked in the ass so damn hard by all the bitching motherfuckers that I'm damn sure as hell going to stay the fuck away from that kind of shit. I mean, hell, that damn bitch disclaimer was REALLY handed its ass. Thank you and goodnight. -Red Raven

Point taken -- we abuse the DA disclaimer on occasion. But the freedom to work in profanity it provides also extends to the opinionated pretense, invalid argumentation and groundless conjecture the column thrives on.

You take the bad with the good, yo, and such, you'll find, is more or less the practical upshot of tonight's monumentally one-sided discussion.

Let's go.

RAGE

Miss, I can't believe what I just read. Just how in the heck do these white supremacists [censored]s get off making those types of games? I think that is bullshit, quite frankly. What the hell do white people have to be afraid of? They've been the king of the castle for ages, and they think that they need hope for a better future? What kinda crap is that? I cannot believe that they chose video games as the "appropriate" medium to expose this message to people. The ironic thing is that they can take the blame off of themselves by pointing the finger at other violent games! But they don't get the picture do they? What is the difference between that cleansing crap and our wholesome videogames? One huge pile of hatred, man! And who the heck is that company who put this stuff out on the market. They have some responsibility over this because that is their software, and because of that, they have to monitor what is made with it. After all, how many games do they have to filter out? Only the ones such as these. Here is the flip-side, though... now video gamers and Joe Lieberman have common grounds to fight for: the alienation of these types of games. It seems ironic that the one who would protest against racial superiority games is Jewish, huh? I just want to see those guys get the respect they deserve... or lack thereof, of course. Please pardon me now. Allergy season is in full swing, and my nose feels like it is about to force itself through a dozen sneezes. Eesh! ~Chris

I don't even know where to begin my disagreement with your call that Eclipse should be responsible for what people do with Genesis 3D. Not only would regulation of the kind you're proposing go against the philosophy underlying open-source engines, but it'd be damn near impossible to implement given the nature of its distribution. Trying to pin what people do with Genesis 3D on Eclipse is like trying to hold Krylon accountable for Milwaukee's graphiti problem.

Besides....

Not much

Howdy. Ready-made game engines will probably continue to have about the same impact on the industry they've had thus far, which is to say: not much. Genesis 3D itself has been around for several years and really hasn't been used for much at all. In the RPG genre, RPG "engines" such as all the incarnations of RPG Maker have been around for a long time, and there have also been some fan-developed efforts such as Verge. The end result of all this has been negligible. "Ethnic Cleansing" is the only game I can remember hearing about to be made with one of these freeware or commercially available engines, and it's only getting press for its objectionable content, not because it's a quality product. Probably the single area of gaming most affected by ready-made engines has been the PC FPS market, which has seen a glut of titles made by licensing engines from games like Quake, Half-Life, and Unreal. Ultimately though, these titles never reach the level of quality achieved by the originals that they owe their existence to. So, given the fact that professional game developers have yet to produce anything particularly noteworthy using prepackaged engines, I really don't hold out much hope that amateur developers will have any better luck. I'd be delighted if someone proved me wrong, but it seems to me that anyone dedicated enough to design a truly high quality game and follow through from idea to finished product will also likely be dedicated enough to do it from the ground up so that it comes out the way they want it. -Arpad Erin, Largely, I think these open source/freeware engines are a good thing. Like every other modern medium, gaming is in dire need of a larger, more active Indie community if we want to see the kind of advances that are necessary if gaming is to really take off. Indie musicians have always been the driving force behind nearly any modern musical revolution you can think of, and movies would be nothing but the stomping grounds of Hollywood popcorn flicks if it wasn't for the large Indie artistic influences that play quietly in the background. Right now, gaming doesn't really have that driving force, and as a result, revolutions in gaming are hard to come by, save when technology mandates them. I think there are a good amount of gamers out there that would be willing to embrace an underground movement in gaming, if only to get something different. Gaming has a very ardent fan base, and yet we don't really have any place to go for our more specialized desires. One of the main problems right now is that a lot of aspiring game designers, or people that would like to be part of an Indie movement are purely techies. They'd rather be the next John Carmack than anything else--and lets face it, while he's good at what he does, Mr. Id does not do games. He does technology. Open source engines with a "take chunks of code when you need them" philosophy could go either way; they could just be a breeding ground for techies to see if they can create a better version of that awesome lighting algorithm, or they could be a way for people with more of an artistic bent to get back to the business of making games. Unfortunately, these engines are usually pretty limited and simple, and a lot of creative ideas are going to be stifled because the people behind them don't have the means to reach their ends. While Indie movements are all about raw creativity (ignoring the legions of elitists, of course), generalized gaming engines are not. I think we could see a clash of interests here. As for games like "Ethnic Cleansing" becoming more prolific? I don't think its going to matter much. Just because something like that exists, doesn't mean people are going to care about it. Unless you're already a bigot, are you really going to be interested in playing a generic FPS with racist overtones? Anyone that would be converted solely by something like that is already beyond hope--and it sure as hell isn't gaming's fault. Plus, its not like there aren't any number of garage bands out there banging drums, mangling guitars and screaming inane vocals in a vain attempt to get attention anyway. This is the same thing, transplanted into another medium, and its the price we pay for a possible blossoming Indie community. The trade off is worth it. -Justin Freeman

I agree with more or less everything represented in this pair of letters, and can't really think of any solid counter-arguments with which to play Devil's Advocate, so ... moving on....

A step closer to Fraundorfian

Erin - Dude, I have an admirer. Since I wasn't around yesterday, I'll take this moment to wonder what the hell Acclaim was thinking. Some moron probably cooked up something like "Hey, if the families say we can use the gravestones..." You know, the whole issue reminds me of Fritz's fic where Sephiroth got free plastic surgery by having an ad banner put on the fake nose. Only sicker. Ahem, onto to the topic. Personally, I think that open source engines and such are nothing but good. Let's face it, hate groups were making games long before game engines became readily available to basement programmers. I accidentally stumbled into one while looking for a non-mud MMORPG that didn't require a purchase. The fact that these hate games are now just more technically impressive means that it will be easier for people with quality stories and experiences they would like to share to produce the experience they want. I mean, they turned an open source engine mainly designed for video-conferenceing tasks and other high quality video applications into what is apparently a top notch shooter. Imagine what someone like Tolkien, C. S. Lewis, or some basement programmer with a great idea could pull off with that Verge RPG engine that started floating around a few years ago. While I regret things like Ethnic Cleansing will come out of this, I'm afraid that it's a price of progress. It pains me to write it off like that, but I'm afraid it's true. Every new media outlet, advancement, or opening (including advertising, as we have just seen) will be exposed to it's use for hatred and evil. It's one of the problems of a free speech society. For every Martin Luther King, Jr., there is an Adolph Hitler. And if we give them all equal rights, we'll have to hear both sides. I think that about sums up what I was trying to say, except to add that we will have to deal with it. Luckily, most of us are possessed with enough common decency to decry Ethnic Cleansing and its like, so that while represented, they never gain a real foothold in society. Peace, Ray Stryker...that was too deep, I'm getting dizzy looking down it...

Perhaps hypocritically, I harbor something of a twitch hatred of hate groups and intolerance of ... uh ... intolerance, but nevertheless, the freedoms that allow me to speak out against what I so deem injustice allow supremacist groups to preach their own spin on things. If you choose to delimit what's acceptable and what isn't with an arbitrary line, someone will always be wronged by where that line falls, and lo, we wander into First Amendment territories.

Hyprocrisy

Where to begin? This development disturbs me on many levels, and yet damning it outright feels a bit hypocritical. Maybe I'd best sort it out a bit at a time: "I'm not sure if hate laws would apply to this," says the ADL's Marcus. "Even in the end, where you're killing Ariel Sharon, it's a satire. The defense would be that it's virtual. Clicking a mouse is not real." "Do you ever see any video games that don't have violence in them?" Pierce says. Not often, I'll admit. And even beyond general violence (a subject well and truly beat into the ground), games bear a lot of social issues besides. FFX alone has elements of racism, religious intolerance, and liberation through death, and we excuse it because the designers are really writing against it, and ultimately it does not spill into reality after the credits roll. Perhaps what is most offensive the National Alliance's product is its self-promotion and blatant encouragement to follow their example. It's not a narrative, it's a brochure. When Wakka rages against the Al Bhed, it's a character flaw. When EC's Aryan rages against all other ethnic groups, it's an instruction. THAT'S what bugs me. "I was happy to see they pointed out our game is technologically and artistically far above any of the other games that have a racial theme," Pierce said [in response to criticism]. And of course it doesn't matter to them whether it bugs me or not. Again we see the 'no bad press' mentality, but there's a more sinister fallacy here. They seem to believe all they're doing is preaching to their flock; that 'games with a racial theme' will only be sold to those who have an interest in the subject matter in the first place. But as I said before, the game preaches its example as much as it presents it, and I hardly think the sort of audience turned on by such a product will lose the 'thrill' of the gameplay behind when they hit the power button. I may have the right to ignore the product, but I could still be directly affected by those inspired by it. And harm to others is exactly where the First Amendment rights end. "This is a double-edged sword here," says Rocca. "The same way these guys took open source [and] used it to create something bad, the flip side is that someone could take these tools and create some great love story." The sad fact is, the operative word here is 'could'. If I initially felt like a First Amendment hypocrite for saying the product bothers me and shouldn't be, I just feel empty when I realize there's a perceived market for bigot gaming while gamers generally agree something as positive as love would make a dull game. God only knows what that means, and I don't really want to. SonicPanda

Again ... gee, what to say? Except, maybe, that by your own logic, the game is really doing little or nothing to spread its questionable doctrine since those "thrilled" by its gameplay are undoubtedly going to be the National Alliance's only takers.

Another unbroken salt block of consensus

Well Erin, we meet again, I'm delighted that you've taken today's topic into this track because it allows me to set up an important distinction. As much as I railed against Acclaim's little affront to human decency yesterday, I don't find anything particularly objectionable about this. If we are to concede that the video game is a form of media, then we have no more right to censor it than we would a book or a film. If we're going to take ourselves seriously, we must except the responsibilities that come with it. Certainly I have no love of hate groups, but our Constitution applies just as much to their ideas as it does any other. I'm a strong believer in the theory that ideas should be free for all to digest for themselves. (Of course we're talking about adults here. The problem of children getting their hands on such material is another matter altogether.) Acclaim's actions sicken me because the only motivation behind them is money. The white supremacists, on the other hand, would be perfectly content to turn their players into new white supremacists. Their motivation is ultimately to exchange information. However tainted that information may be, it must still be protected. I didn't see such a big fuss being made over the bumper crop of Kill Bin Laden games that appeared in September. Oh but that's right, America hates him. He's a bad man so it's okay to blow his head off with a shotgun. How is that hate any more acceptable than the hate endorsed by the Neo Nazis? On the positive side, the solution to the problem is stated perfectly at the end of the article. Jason Della Rocca: "The same way these guys took open source [and] used it to create something bad, the flip side is that someone could take these tools and create some great love story." Well said, my good man. The best way, maybe the only way, to battle an idea, is with a more powerful idea. Otherwise there can be no true change. Censorship is tyranny. El Cactuar Mehlos-sama: I figure I'll be about one of one people who write in with this viewpoint, and chances are that you'll disagree with me also. So goes life. :-) Here is my inflammatory viewpoint: I have no problem with the fact that this "Ethnic Cleansing" game exists. Now, give me a chance, before you quit reading... First and foremost, I have to say, that the idea of this game disgusts me. My father is a bigoted idiot, and when I still lived at home, I left the dinner table more than once becuase I couldn't stand to hear any more of his tirade about [insert ethnic group, people of a different sexual orientation, etc, here]. I can't fathom why people still think that the color of your skin or who you sleep with has any effect on your value as a person. But that's really neither here nor there. First amendment. Like it or not, I figure it applies here. I don't recall anyone throwing a fit about the "shoot the Muslim" (and variants thereof) games that popped up on shockwave sites all over the net after the September 11th attacks. So, I think it's a little late to get self-righteous about how horrible it is to make a game that is based off of racial stereotypes, eh? If we can kill people of Arabic descent, why not people of African-American descent? Please note that I am not defending this in any way, shape, or form... but I think people need to wake up & realize that perhaps they're not as much for equality as they thought. There seems to be a general opinion of "all persons are created equal, some are just created more equal than others" in America today. Also, let's realize that this isn't a widely distributed title. It's not like 5-year-olds can walk into Wal-Mart and buy Ethnic Cleansing. This is something that people have to buy from a white power website, and that would indicate to me that it's not something that will change people's minds. It's not as if kids are gonna go buy this at the local EB and then decide that black people are bad. This is something that KKK freaks and their white-trash buddies are gonna buy, drink a few beers, and have a laugh at. Their minds are already made up, and this game isn't gonna change anything. This isn't really a good point, but we can't forget that the game probably sucks. I mean, let's face it, there are some big-name publishers out there who have put out some positively horrible 1st-person shooters (Heretic 2, anyone? Daikatana, for chrissakes?)... so I don't think it's presumptous to assume that Ethnic Cleansing is probably a terrible game, and not just because of its content. But anyway, I still maintain that this game has as much right to exist as any other game does. It's your choice whether or not to buy it. Free game engines have nothing to do with hatred. It's just a different medium to broadcast the same ridiculous message. Besides, if you don't want games like this on the market, raise your children to treat others as they wish to be treated, and to be colorblind. Thankfully, my mother had a far greater hand in raising me than my father ever did, so I was brought up not to realize that black people were the same as white people were the same as asian people.... but that there was no black, white, or asian. People are people. And that's really the only cure to this problem. Oh, and since I've already typed a letter too long to be printed, LOL, I'll just add that I don't know what all the fuss about advertising in graveyards is. If people were going to draw the line on advertising, they should have done it years ago when graveyardss weren't about the only place left untouched. And besides, I bet there's not a cemetary in America that's not within viewing distance of a billboard (or twenty). Consumerism is unfortunately here to stay, people; that ship sailed back in the 1980s. Pretty soon, they'll tattoo ads on the inside of your eyelids so that there is no escape at all. So why worry about some small ads on gravestones? And that's my $.02. Yay for cynicism. Too little sleep and the lack of a girlfriend does nothing for my attitude, heh. -SoulSabre... "It's as soft as a marshmallow and tastes like a lemon!"

Funny how people always think they're alone in their views, yet almost everyone seems to share their sentiments. Methinks if all the world were as free a forum as Double Agent, a far greater understanding could be reached.... and uncensored indie game development efforts using regurgitated open-source game and graphics engines are just a step in the right direction.

It's my life! Er ... death.

Hey Erin! The only time I've ever vehemently disagreed with Gabe & Tycho WAS with their take on the Lithtech engine, and even these... ATROCITIES don't change my mind. People, open-source software is a GOOD thing!! How shortsighted it is to say that it primarily encourages bad or underdeveloped software, or offensive software, to reach our shelves!! ANY media will always be used for both good AND evil!! In any media, the possibility for just anyone to express themselves with those media came only gradually. Books, film, traditional art - as these media became cheaper and easier to produce, more people began to utilize these media to convey their messages and opinions. This brought forth books like Mein Kampf and propaganda films, but also many good things. If all media had remained as expensive to produce as they were in the beginning of their existence, Peter Jackson would have never become a director, and nobody would have heard about van Gogh, or Shakespeare, or Dickens. The same with games - though they started out cheap to produce, it hasn't been possible these past few years to compete with the latest games because of the complexity and price of the undertaking. But through middleware and open source software, independent developers can realize their vision once again. Besides, does anyone think that children whose parents buy Ethnic Cleansing for them wouldn't have been otherwise influenced by those same parents? Or that people who derive pleasure from these games wouldn't otherwise have easily been converted to the racist gospel? Well, that brings us back to the whole "violence in games"-discussion again. It is absolutely ludicrous to take away the tools, so that gamesmaking is only possible for a select few again. I thought that the GIA and Penny-Arcade would be the last places to advocate such censorship. Sir Farren, who would also like to note that propaganda games have been around for a long time : anyone remember the Wisdom Tree games (if that's what those christianity vehicles were called).

I think that's a pretty good place to leave off.... what do you think?

...

Tough.

Closing Comments:

Tomorrow, let's get the hell away from all these pervasive moral issues and talk about something sweet and fruity.

It's pretty obvious that we all play games ... but how many of us collect games? That is, how many of us salivate over $300 copies of DQ still in its shrinkwrap? Like those lunatics who'll pay $200 for a rare Pez dispenser, what lengths will you go to to track down a game for your collection? Or, conversely, how do you feel about those of us crazy enough to pay three times more for a game we may not even play in the name of collecting?

- Erin Mehlos