Disclaimer: The opinions expressed within this column are those of the participants and the moderator, and do not necessarily reflect those of the GIA. There is coarse language and potentially offensive material afoot. At some point, you will be forced to realize that I hate you. Don't say we didn't warn you.

Tackling this topic has brought to my attention the shocking truth: that I know relatively little about FFXI; that I have not followed its development with a devout fervor befitting of a FF fanatic; that - and the very words lodge themselves sideways in my throat like so many chicken bones - I have simply not given a damn.

Online RPGs frighten me - as a console gamer, an approved addict, and an impoverished student.

MMORPG's threaten to strip away the comfortable, solitary darkness in which I have painstakingly cultivated my apathy, and toss me into the mix with my atrophied social skills and a bunch of roughs who'd undoubtedly just as soon Doublecast Flare on my ass as look at me. But, because of the compulsive nature that's allowed me to become hopelessly, haplessly addicted to chatrooms and MUDs before, I will, beyond question, continue to fork out for the service if it means simultaneous submissions to all the plasma banks in town.

As a student - moreover a student who regularly has to spend five bucks on a single sheet of some arcane type of paper (Coquille? What the hell's Coquille?) in addition to supporting her unfortunately pricey vices - money is most certainly an object. A big, hulking, ominous behemoth of an object that lurks at the crests of already damn near insurmountable peaks.

And uh ... yeah. I'm leery of MMORPGs.

Let's go.

Ahead of its time

Erin, Now, people can say a lot of things about Final Fantasy XI, and I'm sure you're in the middle of reading them all right now. And there's a pretty solid rebuttal for all of these things... except this one (which I will present in two parts): a) Every major video game system since the Atari 2600 has had some form of modem or online gaming peripheral, and they have all failed. Those released by third party companies put those third party companies out of business. Those released by the hardware manufacturers caused them to lose money until they were dropped like so many hot, hot potatoes. b) NO peripheral device is EVER purchased by more than 10% of the owners of that console - no light gun, no joystick, and certainly no modem. The sole exceptions to this rule have come only recently, since systems no longer come with two controllers and require memory cards to save games. Thus, only peripherals that are seen as absolutely necessary achieve any sort of appreciable market penetration. As far as my unhealthy hatred for the Xbox goes, I must admit that Microsoft has the best chance of making online gaming work because every Xbox user has the ability to play those games right out of the box (or will once broadband becomes standard). It worked once - it's no coincidence that the one marginally successful online console game was on a system that had a modem built in. Of course, Phantasy Star Online lost enough money that Sega had to charge for PSO v.2, which tanked right before the hardware did. So having the connection built in isn't everything. And that's a bitter pill to swallow for Sony and Square, because they not only have to make people buy and use their product -- they have to convince them that a broadband device or modem is an absolute necessity. And quite frankly, I don't think FFXI has the mass market appeal to do that. Like the FF movie, FFXI is just a few years ahead of its time. Chris Kohler, who is buying it anyway

Your closing summation is like, way effective. Regardless of what kind of gaming experience FFXI ultimately delivers, releasing it in the near future shackles Square not only with the responsibility of selling a radical departure within a franchise that is - let's face it - creed, but with selling PS2 owners on a modem or broadband peripheral, dialup or dedicated internet service to match, a keyboard, and a hard drive. And let's not fool ourselves - everyone who actually cared about online console gaming bought a Dreamcast, had their still-beating hearts torn from their chests when Sega made clear their intentions to discontinue support, and then went out and bought an Xbox.

Had Square held off on this particular experiment until Sony had already established an online PS2 user base, they'd be skating uphill, at least, at a markedly gentler angle. Things being as they are - and I eagerly await your frothing hatemail even as I write this - in many ways, Square may very well have been better off developing FFXI for Microsoft's machine.

Unresolved issues

So what's it gonna take to get FFXI going? As it turns out, alot. The first hurdle is to get a viable (by viable, I mean cheap) modem for the PS2. A good option would be to bundle a modem with the game to keep the cost as low as possible. Not everyone can afford to plunk out the cash neccesary in order to play the game (i.e. the game, modem, keyboard, monthly fee, etc.) so keeping the cost low is an absolute must for this game to be a success. Let's move on. Assume Sony and Square have solved the modem problem, now we get to gameplay. Take a good look at Phantasy Star Online. This was a smashing game that was unfortunately plagued by a few problems. Not the least of which was cheating. This is a new step for the PS2 and it's imperative that they look at the success (and failure) of other *console* online gaming to determine what they need to do. Naturally this limits them because we have only had one 'RPG' but valuable lessons can be learned. The major problem is to be ever vigilant against cheating, this is what ruined the PSO experience. They will never stamp cheating out entirely (it ain't gonna happen!) but by maintaining the servers and being vigilant (I would reccomend watching sites like the Code Creators Club to get the latest info) they can at disable the new codes and at least slow the cheaters down. On that same note, I would be remiss if I didn't mention *why* people cheated in the first place, on PSO. For those of you who played it, you know what I'm talking about - the stingy item drop/randomization in the game. You could spend hours, days, even weeks playing the game 12 hours a day (like me....damn....I'm such a loser) and you have little chance (no chance) of finding any of the neato rare items that made the game worth playing. The end result, everyone rushed out to buy a GS or an Exploder so they could 'create' the weapons they could never find. Then they would duplicate them for friends and soon enough everybody had these wonderful items, even though no one could ever find them. This of course gave rise to the player killing and NOL'ing that really ruined the game...... .....just when I think I'm out, it pulls me back in! DAMN YOU PHANTASY STAR ONLINE!!!! YOU ATE UP MY LIFE AND GAVE ME NOTHING IN RETURN!!! Ok, with that aside let's get back to the topic at hand. Stamping out cheating will be a dual effort. Effective maintaince/vigilance and an item drop system that isn't stingy. Other game play issues will be character creation - players want to create wild and unique characters. The more options, the better. The speed of online play is another issue. Games will need to play smooth with little to no lag. Involving quests are something else that will enhance the game. PSO gave us some short quests that revisited the same areas and gave practically nothing in return. FFXI needs to remedy this by giving us a wide host of new quests and dungeons to explore at will. Another important issue is including some type of system that allows players to keep track of people they have meet and contact them. Sort of a Simple Mail feature that appeared in PSO. Phew, I could drag on for days but I'll leave it at this. IF FFXI can tackle these issues with good results, we may be on the verge of witnessing a revolution in online RPG's. - Justin (As you can see, I have unresolved issues with one PSO...)

The gaming community's primary doubt as to FFXI's success is with its inevitably formidable cost - but the gist of your letter raises an entirely different set of concerns - concerns I'm actually pretty optimistic about Square's ability to take into consideration.

Much like young, nigh-bankrupt underdog Square Co. Ltd. learned from and capitalized on the shortcomings of a successful title (DQ in this instance) with a souped-up, slightly more in-depth game in a similar mode way back when at the genesis of FF, I'm confident the mature, fan-serving Square of today can step back and learn from the mistakes and victories of PSO - upping the ante for FF and console RPGs as a whole with the same panache they've historically shown in pushing the franchise - and the genre - into new territory.

Then, too, I could just be talking out my ass as per usual. And seeing as how the former sentence is so much less readily digestible and so much more overbearingly wordy, I'd put my last sweaty wad of bills on you people going with the latter.

But you're right - much like Direct TV will never stomp out those pesky Canadian pirates - online gaming will always be plagued with cheaters and cheating in some construct. Not to mention dumb asses....

An argument? Oh I'm terribly sorry - this is Abuse!

Hey there, Erin! ^_^ In my estimation, FFXI will likely fail, and it's due to one thing No, not the modem and/or HD price. No, not the pay-to-play structure. No, what will cause FFXI's ultimate failure, as well as the failure of online gaming in general, is the GameShark. Just as it ruined all the fun of PSO, eventually the GameShark will empower lame asses to do everything from teleporting all over a level and hogging all the monsters to themselves, to PKing the good folk, or worse, destroying their files, replacing the character they'd built up over months with a level 5 piece of crap. And even without the GameShark, you still have people calling eachother stupid names, soliciting for c-sex, begging for GameShark codes, and in general just being dumb asses. It was so bad on PSO that I ended up pulling my DC offline, and it'll be bad enough to kill the initial exitement over FFXI in relatively short order. There are simply too many assholes out there for online gaming to go mainstream. Niku Dorei understands the bullets, you see. She makes them go where she wants.

In much the same fashion as I was driven from IRC by its eventual descent into lameness, I heartily expect to stalk off in dire frustration after a hard day's having my ass kicked in FFXI by someone called SEPHIROTH007-69 who's employed a GameShark to remove the 1,000,000 HP ceiling and empower himself with all available skills. And oh, how much more it'll sting when I reflect upon how much the experience set me back.

You don't respect my individuality!

Sup, If Final Fantasy XI were to fail, it will happen for 2 main reasons, IMO. The game is going to appear on both the PS2 and the PC and while I don't expect PS2 users to really do anything besides the duping of items (duplicating them by exploiting the lag in the game) or using GameShark, PC users will definitely find a way to do some massive damage to the game. If Square wants FFXI to succeed, it's going to have to police games aggressively and with extreme prejudice. Cheating will seriously make or break an online game, which can be seen in Blizzard's Diablo series or even some of the Ultima Online stuff I experienced (macro trainers, trainers to change the values of spells and attacks, etc) While cheating is a main issue in online games, there's one thing that I think online RPGs really need to have nowadays, and that is getting the players involved. The slogan for Phantasy Star Online was something along the lines of "you're not the only hero anymore". I personally think that's a huge slap in the face to any player who wants to pick up an online rpg and play. Online games need to focus on making the individual important, to make them believe that they are the reason why certain events happen in the game. A couple of months ago I started playing Shattered Galaxy, a real-time strategy/rpg online game by Nexon for the PC. Aside from Total Annihilation (another strategy game for the PC), Shattered Galaxy is the ONLY massively multiplayer online game that gives the player the feeling that their efforts matter in the world that they exist in. When you first enter Shattered Galaxy, you get to choose what factions you would like to fight for, and periodically you can enter in battles to help your faction win the day to gain experience points as well as tributes from your clan. While I'm not suggesting a 24/7 war in FFXI, there are definitely things that Square can think of to make the player feel a little bit empowered. A neat scenario that could happen would be a ruling government in a certain region will e-mail/message a dozen or so random people to their quarters, and ask them for their help in recovering a stolen artifact, and then asking them if they accept the offer or not. Nevertheless, I think it's about time that online games started containing some features that will make the players feel important to the world. I'm getting sick and tired of just going around killing random enemies and buying useless crap, which is why I think Shattered Galaxy was such a refreshing change of pace. Andrew Alfonso

And while Square is hard at work validating the individuality of gamers everywhere, why don't they incorporate some system of cold, hard, redeemable cash? Say, if you accumulate 50,000 Gil, not only can you purchase that much-needed Paladin Shield - you can alternatively trade in your earnings for a shiny new FFXI T-Shirt. Or something.

Think you're funny, do you, funny man?

Agent Mehlos Yellow (see, that's funny... Mehlos... Mellow... it's... you know, kinda... I'll shut up) - I see FFXI failing for the following reasons: - Anybody who can afford to play an online RPG is already playing Everquest. - Anybody who can afford to play more than one online RPG is already playing Everquest and Dark Age of Camelot (or Anarchy Online, or Phatasy Star Online, etc.) - Anybody that doesn't meet the above criteria is not going to shell out $50 for a game, another $200 for hardware upgrades for their console, and then pay $10 a month to hang out with a bunch of people talking in "1337 sp34k" and have their connection die just in time to be killed by a level 2 squirrel. - Anybody that, through some miracle, doesn't meet the above criteria, is already playing Everquest: Shadows of Luclin (freakin' 512 MB of memory for character models... unholy...). - An'Desha - now remembers why he's never beaten a Final Fantasy: mandatory mid-game leveling. -- An'Desha

Well actually, seeing as how my surname's pronounced "MAY-los" and not "MEL-lows," your clever greeting (which, unsurprisingly, I got a lot of in the third grade) is not nearly so funny as you may think. Certainly it's not as funny as the rest of your observations on the matter at hand.

Not that I harbor any hard feelings - I just didn't really have anything else to say.

How straddling the fence is hard on the crotch

I'm one of the people out there who believe Final Fantasy XI will fail. I hope it doesn't...I dont' have any bone to pick with Square and I wish them all the best. But there are a few good reasons to think Final Fantasy XI won't be the huge seller that their previous games were. 1) Hardware requirements. The truth of the matter is that FF XI will be about the only thing on the market which will require the broadband connection/hard drive when it's released. It's going to be a tough pill to swallow to plunk down $50 for the game and then buy the extra hardware. I don't know exactly what the broadband adaptor and HD will cost, but I'm going to guess that somewhere around $100 sounds about right. That's a lot of money to spend for one game. 2) The lack of broadband users. I truly and honestly have no idea what percentage of the people in Europe have ISDN or people in Japan have a high speed connection, but I do know that there are a lot less people using broadband than you may think. DSL just isn't taking hold because of the hardware limitations for providers (having to place a HUB every 50,000 feet is an expensive proposition when you're talking about trying to get nationwide coverage), and cable is just in disarray right now with the recent closing of several of the major providers. 3) The difference between online RPG players and console gamers. This is (in my opionion) the biggest fault with the game. The standard online game player is primarily a PC game player, and the "feel" of PC RPG's and console RPG's is very, very different. A good portion of online RPG playing involves wandering around and killing things with the primary focus being on "leveling up". Console RPG's thus far are deeply story drive and feature a faster-style combat. I realize there are exceptions to these rules, but in a broad sense I think it's true that console RPG's are more story driven while games like Everquest or Dark Age of Camelot are more about creating/building a character. I just don't see either side of the line crossing over to the other, and that's going to cause problems for FF XI. The main problem that I see is that FF XI is a "tweener" type of game...it looks like it's going to be a little bit stats-based and involve character building, but not nearly enough to please the masses who are used to completely customizable characters (i.e. Everquest players). Standard console RPGers will probably like some parts of the game, but the lack of a central cohesive story will probably turn them off. Whether FF XI sells well or ends up in the tank, it's going to be interesting to watch. It's a game which doesn't seem like it's going to appeal to any defined group of gamers, but that's what makes it interesting. Sometimes in order to be groundbreaking you've got to try something new and different which people expect to fail. Sometimes that groundbreaking effort works and you revolutionize a genre. Sometimes you get Diakatana.

The diehard Square whore in me wants to shriek bloody murder at you for comparing Sakaguchi to John Romero - but I think for the moment "Whatchu talkin' 'bout, Willis?" will suffice. What's Daikatana got to do with anything? I mean, apart from its being a 4-year undertaking that ultimately kind of sucked?

You bring some good points to the table, though. Square's obviously trying to broaden the potential appeal of the FF series by straddling the PC and console approaches to RPGs and MMORPGs specifically - but in doing so they risk falling short of both camps' expectations and losing their proverbial ass.

For all that everbody's been chanting for months about wishing the RPGiant would just hurry up and fail so they might get on to more important, conventional things: personally, whether FFXI appeals to me or not, I bloody well hope it appeals to someone - after the hit Square took in the form of FF:TSW, who really wants to see this big, bad, beloved developer compound its financial difficulties with another loss?

Take the good with the bad, people

Creating a "linear" or at least semi-linear MMORPG would not be awfully hard to do, but you'd need to piss off a lot of people in the process. Of course, first you gotta realize that this is the gaming equivalent of live theater you're dealing with rather than the movie model that's been the norm up till now. Selling copies of a game on the shelf, as many as you can, whenever you can, to whoever wants it until the servers groan under the weight is, frankly, not the best business model. Furthermore, you need maximum and minimum level caps to keep the game balanced rather than hideously tilted in favor of the players who have 17 hours a day to sit in front of their screens, and I know how much that'd piss off the people who have those 17 hours. (I say increase the level caps at regular intervals to allow the players to attain that state of demigodhood that is so entertaining in the final stages of single-player RPGs.) You need to do something about latecomers besides dropping them in at level 1. Basically, to make a really great MMORPG you'd have to give up sales, which would obviously make it a tough decision for any business, and it'd probably have to be justified by charging more for each copy of the came. Anyway, walking home from the grocery store a week or three ago, I had a thought: Imagine, say, playing FFVI Online. You start in a town in the north. Players start leaving to explore, trying to get a feel for the world. Rumors start filtering north about a huge "Empire" in the south. Employees of Square show up, acting as Empire and Returner generals, recruiting players who want to take sides. They set up a SNES Mechwarrior style random mission generator and let small parties of players take on other small parties in random missions and human-invented missions. There are various big battles, border towns being taken and retaken. Then you get the switch from the World of Balance to Ruin. Imagine how cool that would be! Signing on, getting an immediate barrage of frantic ICQ messages, then getting into the server where no one has any clue what's happened, rumors are flying, hundreds of PCs and NPCs are dead, and everything else has gone completely to hell. At the item shops, there's been a run on Phoenix Down, so all the survivors are out in the field desperately trying to get money from the suddenly-much-more-powerful monsters without getting killed themselves. It couldn't help but be a fantastic experience. And the grand finale of the plot arc is a colossal, week-long assault on Kefka's Tower, involving hundreds of players. Let's just say, I'll be there with FFXI on day 1 just on the off chance it's anything like that. - Charlie Tangora

Christ, dude. You make FFXI sound like it could be a good thing.

Yet, as untouchably cool as your vision for this thing sounds, I think your Empire and Returner generals would have to be glorified bots - or volunteer, op-like figures - paying a veritable army to play recruitment/command officers in a MMORPG doesn't seem totally feasible to me.

Echoes of Middle Earth....

First off: I'm a true FF-Fan from Day one, dispite the fact, that you couldn't buy much of the series here in europe for ages. Most people here in europe know the Series since Part 7 and that's a shame. I just finished FFX the second time with all secrets revealed (what a nuisance...) and i must admit: i love the game for what it is: a true cinematic RPG with the best Story ever to grace the FF-Series, fantastic graphics and outstanding charakterdesign along with the best battle-engine since the invention of ATB. BUT: FFXI looks a lot different and i'm sure Square has gotten themselfes in much trouble with this one. 1. Thinking, that it'll be possible to port a strong, storydriven gameplay into the realm of MMORPGs is a complete misunderstanding of the genre. MMORPGs are all about freedom and the opportunity to do, whatever you want, when you want and the recent FFs where on the complete opposite. That works with singleplayer games, where you can beef up the drama with lots of FMVs and dialoge, but not with Online RPGs. Ergo: it can't be a MMORPG and that's the first dissapointement 2. If FFXI will not be a MMORPG, it might be a Diablo/PSO Clone in a sophiscated FF World. That would be fine too, but: have you seen the screenshots and charakterdesigns? Where the heck are the original and awe-inspiring designs of Tetsuya Nomura or Yoshitaka Amano? All that i can see is a very boring pseudo-medievil world with clicheed Charakters i've seen a hundred times before. I was utterly dissapointed when i first saw these charakter classes (especially the ridiculous dwarfes, who look like degenerated Ewoks to me), which are so boring, i couldn't believe it. I expected a world full of "steamgear fantasy" on par with FF7 or 8 or at least something true to the roots of the series, even if that would mean to deal with the crystals again... . But none of this appeared so far. Every single setting of the previous Final Fantasys since at least part 3/6 would be a far superiour enviroment to immerse the Player. Just think of the possible Classes (Shinra, the whole "garden" idea of part 8, Chocobo Farmers, Sephiroth Followers etc.), weapons (upgradable gunblades!!!!!) and so on. Can i here some crying? Be sure, i feel the same way... . So what do we get with FFXI as far as we know up to now? 1. A clicheed World with Charakter classes who lack any personality. 2. undetailed graphics, grey landscapes and, again, very clicheed enviroments (caves, mines, treehouses, and medievil strongholds. oh please...) 3. Linear Gameplay because of the strorydriven form of the game, which means cutting of the freedom of normal Online RPGs. 4. Dungeoncrawling a la PSO/Diablo. Been there, done that. I loved PSO and Diablo, don't get me wrong, but i expected much more from square and a game of that scope, it's Final Fantasy damnit!! 5. And on top of that: it wll be quite expensive too! So, i'm afraid, FFXI will dissapoint many of the Fans who expected a leap forward from the company who gave us innovation and top notch design with every Game, every year. It might still be a good game but it will not be anything groundbreaking, especially if you consider the PC- Competition like, "Star Wars Galaxies" oder "World of Warcraft" or the wonderful "Gundam Online". In Comparison to that and to their own standards, FFXI is just not up to snuff greets from germany marcus rautzenberg

This is a solid complaint of mine as well.

Part of FF's appeal has always been its deviation from the standard, largely western D&D fantasy model. That is to say, FF has not been historically replete with bow-wielding elves, axe-toting dwarves, broadsword-slinging knights, and wimple-wearing princesses. Instead, it created its own mythos - where cavalry rides Joust rejects, moogles run the mail, and diminutive schizos can wield swords twice their mass with single-handed ease.

And I was fine with that. More than fine with that - I liked that.

Yo' mama

FFXI should fail because it insulted my mother. End of story. ~The Kouji

Always good to end with a nice, concrete argument, says I.

Today, though, I chose to end with this.

Musical mushroom

Erin, I've had a topic idea kicking around for a while now and never seem to be near a computer long enough during the week to type it up and send it - so here it is, on a Friday. My question is this: what music from RPGs, Square especially, do you all dislike? We all know the RPG "community," as a whole, loves Mitsuda's gorgeous Celtic-themed and guitar pieces, but what about his grating electric guitar theme for Nikki's musical in Chrono Cross, or his (in my opinion) equally grating and endlessly repetitive main battle themes, or about half the Xenogears soundtrack, for that matter? Honestly, for every "One-Winged Angel" there's a "Mining Town," that accursed North Corel theme; for every "Dancing Mad" or "Devil's Lab" there's a "?" or "Spinach Rag;" for nearly every excellent battle theme on the FF Tactics soundtrack, there's a weak shop or town or intermission piece. For all their great pieces, most RPG soundtracks are only about 2/3 listenable, at best. So, what RPG music, or game music in general, can you simply not stand? For me it's little throwaway pieces like the ones above, but for others it could be the lightweight piano pieces in FFX or the bark-rock experimentation of "Otherworld," and I KNOW for some it's the syrupy pop ditties that accompany each new big release. So, good people, what DON'T you wanna hear? Mud Pepper P.S. :One thing I wonder - I own FFs V-X and Tactics, Vagrant Story, Xenogears, the original Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross, FF II and III (US), the soundtracks to CC, XG, FFT, VS and FF VIII-X and I STILL don't consider myself a Square whore. I've noticed a lot of people (sometimes half-jokingly) calling themselves or accusing others as such, and I wonder why someone who likes a company's stuff is a whore to that company for buying it. If you like Batman are you a DC whore? If X-Men, then a Marvel whore? If Star Wars, a George Lucas whore? It's all a matter of perspective, I suppose, but it seems silly to me...

As often as music meanders through the revolving door of DA topicdom, I suppose this is worth a look.... Especially seeing as how you gave your only computer time of significance for your cause.

Closing Comments:

Tonight got a little long in the tooth. If you like that sort of thing, you're welcome. If you don't ... well ... screw you.

You've got your topic for tomorrow - but before you set about bashing out in 1000 words or less what tune turns your stomach - a proviso: please, for the love of sanity, don't everyone write in nominating Eyes On Me. Dig a little deeper for this one, people - we've already established your irrational hatred of Faye Wong.

-Erin Mehlos