Disclaimer: The opinions expressed within this column are those of the participants and the moderator, and do not necessarily reflect those of the GIA. There is coarse language and potentially offensive material afoot. Who says size doesn't matter. Don't say we didn't warn you.

Xbox generated quite a bit of mail for me today, ranging from the indifferent to the rational to the slavering droolings of individuals in the throes of Halo fever and the Molotov cocktail-wielding warcries of Microsoft malcontents.

The Ico/Feminism discussion has not yet let go, however, so I was compelled to print a few more letters representative of that particular mail mass, as well.

Between the two, you have a lot of reading to do. You might want to get a sandwich or something.

ICO was being held up for debate because... well... because.... HE STARTED IT! *points, turns, runs like hell*

But seriously, my personal thought is that ICO is not, in the end, deserving of any kind of feminist criticism. I thought I said that already?

Humour me, then, while I go off on a tangent and try to explain my personal thoughts on the broader topic of girls in games, since, foolishly, you asked for it.

Bearing in mind that this is my personal opinion so everyone doesn't feel the need to beat my inbox door in with letters pointing out some deviation of mine from some intellectual dogma they've chosen to associate me with, I don't have a problem with DoA and games similar to DoA. Yes, it sports some of the most shameless bounciness in recorded history, but so freaking what?

It's more important to me that the likes of Kasumi can kick ass and take names in that arena - WHILE shamelessly bouncing, no less. To me, powerful yet sexy women send the better message than weak yet conservatively-clad women: that you can piledrive some moron and shatter his spinal column and still be feminine doing it.

Additonally, I accept the fact that software developers are trying to run a business. Buxom Amazons sell better than full-figured librarians. Even I, a raging heterosexual female, don't want to play games populated by ugly women. And hell, can you honestly say the game industry portrays men any more realistically much of the time?

Uh, yeah. Moving along.

Blasting holes in my sails with a 12 gauge

Hi. I was a bit disturbed by your examples of powerful females in anime, and I wasn't sure if you meant to say that they were powerful in terms of physical strength, or powerful in terms of the feminist perspective. If it's the latter, I don't think any of the characters you mentioned applies as a feminist character. Take Ryoko, for instance. Throughout all the OAVs and various TV shows and movies, she alongside with Aeka are portrayed as generally being undesirable - her drinking, laziness, and lack of control are constantly portrayed as unattractive (albeit in a funny way), and it is only when she "softens" and takes a more traditional female role that the main character comes even close to accepting her. This happens to Ayeka too (and in fact, she is treated worse because she's an arrogant snob _pretending_ to be a traditional submissive woman). The only character who's treated sympathetically throughout the Tenchi Muyo series is Sasami - even though she's just a child, she serves in a very traditional "housewife" role, and could perhaps even be seen as a mother figure. There is also one big reason that Ryoko is not a character which any feminist perspective can be attached to - her love of Tenchi. Instead of having any feelings of independence and self-worth, early on we can see that Ryoko's entire being is attached to Tenchi, her feelings for him and his feelings for her. In some of the series (the OAVs, specifically), this trait alone virtually defines her and her actions. Never mind the fact that she's also "inhuman"; ever notice how many women in anime are either robots or artificial constructs of some sort? It's as though they're "made to order" for the young teenage males who consist of the primary audience for these types of shows. Naomi Armitage is also an artificial construct, and though throughout the movie and OAVs she is portrayed as a rather independent, free-spirited character, the ending of Armitage III betrays any feminists views that could be ascribed to her. Mink, if you're referring to the Dragon-Half character, is one of the worst examples of all. Sure, she's strong, but look at her quest - she wants to stop being half-dragon to get a prince to fall in love with her. In essence, she is willing to change the very fabric of her being just to conform to a traditional submissive role. Belldandy is another bad example - in fact, the triumvirate of Belldandy, Urd, and Skuld is the typical teenager's "wet dream." Each one is representative of one of the basic aspects of femininity which men are attracted to. Belldandy herself is nothing but a housewife (or, again, a mother figure, which would explain why Keiichi has such trouble going any farther than kissing with her) with magic powers. It's true that Keiichi is an ineffectual male, but that too is part of a male fantasy - the geeky skinny guy surrounded by beautiful women (other series exploit this fantasy even more mercilessly than Ah My Goddess! - Love Hina, El-Hazard, etc.). Notice how in many of these shows, the main male character has a very simplistic personality, to which the male viewer can ascribe his own personal traits - all part of that "wish fulfillment" thing. I'm not sure who Maris is... But anyway, this is not to say that there are no powerful women in anime who are not dependent on men. I can name a few - Key (Key the Metal Idol), Lain (Serial Experiments Lain), and to a lesser extent Sayla Mass from Mobile Suit Gundam. Though Sayla Mass has issues with her brother, who is on the opposing side during the One Year War, she refuses to give in to his demands that she leave the military and in fact, when he gives her a suitcase full of gold bullion, she gives it away to the orphans who inhabit White Base. She even pilots the Gundam to show that "women are just as good as men" (unfortunately, blowing a hole in my argument, she is an awful pilot and gets her ass summarily kicked). Ehm, well, anyway, to stay a bit on topic, regarding the XBox - no, sir, I don't like it. Hehah. Later. - Ichirou

I asked for this, so damned if I'm not going to print it, even if it does make everything I said yesterday look weak and poorly-considered, and not without reason.

First of all, let me just say that Ryoko sucks in the OVAs. I prefer the TV series' depiction of her a hundred-fold. Yes, she is still overly hung up on Tenchi. But she is an exceptionally courageous and strong character, both emotionally and physically, braving endless pain and self-sacrifice for the man she loves. And what's wrong with that? Do we chalk it up to weakness and emotional dependence when a man faces pain and death to rescue/assist the woman he loves?

The ending of Armitage III Polymatrix is the most horrific non-sequitur I have ever been witness to. The entire movie is one, big, long, sustained feminist undertone.... and then that. What the hell is up with that? I was in denial in regards to that when I mentioned Naomi Armitage.

As for both Mink and Belldandy... Well, I always took both of those for shoujo anime, aimed at a young female audience in their native Japan, where woman are (as I understand it) encouraged to take on the domestic role. Taken in that context, you could say that the sappy romantic pursuits in each are merely intended for a young Japanese girl to readily idenity with: "acceptable" female role models.

Gah. I'm glad you don't know who Maris is, because now that I think about it, she would've given you even stronger arguments against my below-feeble case... *grins, sheepishly, and scurries for cover under the next letter*

Not all-mighty and God-like

Erin, First of all, I just want to say I loved reading yesterday's column, and I've never even played Ico. You made an interesting statement in one of your responses - 'Nevertheless, if anime is any indicator, the Rising Sun is fascinated with powerful women. Why do we not see that manifesting itself more often in games?' I'm going to answer this question only in terms of the Final Fantasy series, because a) the GIA is more about RPGs than anything, b) I haven't really played enough RPGs outside Final Fantasy to comment on them, and well, they always say that you should write about what you know, and c) Square is a Japanese company, and the main market for Final Fantasy games is still Japan. As far as I'm concerned, the Final Fantasy series is full of powerful women. Yes, they're not all-mighty, God-like powerful - they are often emotionally vulnerable, frightened, and the rest. But they're definitely shown as strong characters because through the course of the game they overcome any of their weaknesses - that's true power. And what's more, the men in Final Fantasy games are just as often emotionally vulnerable, frightened and the rest - Cloud, Squall, Cecil, etc The other thing which FF games seem to be accused of is that too often the women in the party are the healers, while the men are the strong, powerful ones, and this is called 'sexist'. I think maybe it's actually 'realist'. The simple fact is that in real life, men are physically stronger than women, and so more likely to be the ones with the axe or the sword - I think this is a large part of the thinking behind why developers often make the man the attacker, the woman the magic-user. Look at the course of history - there are sword-wielding heroines there, but they're far fewer in number than the men - Joan of Arc, Boadicea or however you spell it come to mind, but not many others. I would use a similar-ish argument to the one Jennifer Ritz did about Ico - a female healer is an invaluable member of the party and the game would become near impossible to complete without her. Just because she's not beating the crap out of enemies doesn't make her 'weak'. FF9 would be much harder to complete without Eiko, Garnet and their cure spells. And yes, you can argue that there's nothing realistic about a world where people can use magic, so why not have women able to wield big swords? But the thing is, even the cliché of men as the sword-user and women as the magic-user isn't all-encompassing. Take Edgar or Edward or whatever his name was in FF4, who was frankly pretty crap at attacking and would run away and hide in the middle of battles. Or look at FF5, where your party ended up with 1 male and 3 female members, all of whom were fully customisable and totally equal in physical and magical statistics. Anyway, it feels as if there are still a couple of holes in my argument, and I'd gladly have them pointed out to me, but still I think overall games aren't as sexist as some people make them out to be. Onwards to the Xbox launch. A few days ago I wrote in trying to defend the Xbox on the basis that it had a few good games and shouldn't just be written off. However, after taking a closer look at all the launch games and looking at the list of upcoming games, I'm now much more sceptical as to whether it's worth buying if you're not interested in Halo. I'm certainly not in any rush to get either it or the GC just because they're new - I'm going to wait and see if enough games come out on either that appeal to me, and then maybe eventually buy one or both. I don't think there's any way you can say one console is crap, another one great - it's all a matter of personal taste in games. Yes, I'm a little worried about MS buying up games companies and the like, but if Sony had a right to enter the market I think Microsoft have an equal right. Ultimately it's the games that matter. Paulo

In addition to your point about the females of FFV, Celes and Terra were the powerhouses of FFVI. And then what happens? They give us Aerith and Rinoa. Beatrix, Freya and that nice, pretty girl Kuja made for a nice apology, though.

Anyway, DIE ALREADY, FOUL FEMINIST TOPIC OF THE PAST 3 NIGHTS! We're here for the games!

Which is my own personal reason for not buying an Xbox. That, and the fact that to raise the necessary cash right now I'd have to sell my body out in the parking lot with the rest of the girl gamers in orange crotchless panties.

Turning the tables

I wonder, does anyone remember back when it was Sony under the spotlight for doing almost exactly what Microsoft is doing right now? Buying their way into the video game industry, that is. Granted, Sony successfully got a LOT of exclusive titles, but there's no reason why the X-Box can't expand to get more exclusive titles later. Before we continue, let's get one thing out into the open. I do not have an X-Box. I will not get an X-Box. I am happy with my PS2. However, I don't think that it's quite fair to bash a console, despite any flaws it might have, before it's had at least a year or so to prove itself. Besides, at least it can be said that Microsoft is enthusiastic about the X-Box. The president of Nintendo, if you recall, hates video games. If you think it's all about the money for Microsoft, maybe you should look at your beloved GameCube. It all comes down to money in the end, you know. Don't mention the developers to me, because although it is fair to say that they are extremely enthusiastic about their work, game developers don't make game systems. The X-Box is receiving a lot of flak, but I don't think all of it is necessarily deserved. No system should be judged based on its launch titles. Microsoft is going to have a very hard time surviving when there are two major competitors. They do have several things going for them, however. Sega seems to be quite eager to support the X-Box, and so it is likely that we will see some quality Sega exclusive titles on the X-Box. We already know of one: Shenmue II. The controller size is another issue. Sure, the controller looks pretty weird, and might be a bit unwieldy, but there has never been a system released where there wasn't a huge market in third-party controllers. The PS2 had at least half a dozen third party controllers available at launch. With that amount of variety, I'm sure that there will be at least one controller that is acceptable. I guess all I'm saying is that the X-Box certainly could turn out to be the worst system this planet has ever seen, but I doubt it. It likely won't be the best either, but we have no way of knowing what it will be until it's been around for a while. We'll just have to wait and see what it grows into, or deteriorates into. The X-Box just has yet to find its target audience. But then, I don't see the GameCube appealing to a target audience either. Come to think of it, neither does the PS2. This could just be because no company wants to get tied to one individual market. This has led to a situation where there are soon to be three major video game systems, which are, in many respects, a lot alike. It's the beginning of a new phase of competition between Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft. Only by watching and waiting will we be able to determine which console is the best. But there is no way of knowing right now which one is the worst. -Autistic Savant

I'm really quite fond of this letter and felt I should share with the rest of you, despite the fact that it leaves with with very little to say.

I suppose I could confess that when the PSX first stepped into the arena I regarded it with hostility, my eyes dwindling to spiteful slivers or some other literary cliché. I harbored a deep-seated prejudice against this fledgling console and the threat it posed to Elder Gods SEGA and Nintendo right up until the day I finally broke down and bought one in the knowledge that if I wanted FFVII, I'd have to accept Sony's red-headed stepchild sooner or later.

Now look at me. Complaining awya my life because Microsoft is threatening Sony's "target audience."

1001 Xbox Recipes

It took me a while, but I finally figured out what good the Xbox is. For the longest time I had no interest in the system whatsoever; any game for it that sparked any interest in me at all will be hitting another system eventually (or already has), it's as large as a tank (and weighs almost as much), and it's made by good old MS. But last night, checking out my local 24-hour Wal-Mart to see how they were doing the launches (so that I could be prepared for Sunday, a day that I am looking forward to), I found out that the Xbox is good for something: buying a system, pawning it on eBay, and using the profits to help fund a GameCube. Now let's just hope that the eBay market gets to the point that I'll actually make a profit off of it. jon, who finds it even more humorous that he had no problem getting the system and didn't even want it.

I put myself through a semester of school doing this with Furbies when they first hit the market.

You've just given me a reason to consider forking out for an Xbox. Screw that overly-complicated FAFSA form....

Not a pot shot

Erin - I have to hand it to you, you posess quite a bit of...well, I guess you would say ovarian fortitude, to hop right into what is sure to be a long line of "Microsoft sUx0r" and whatever...and BTW, you are doing a good job, I'd compare you to some of the other DA's, but that isn't fair... Hey, a topic!!! Anyway, I do not particulary want an X Box. It's not a bias against the company or anything immature like that. How could I say I hated Microsoft anyway? I'm typing this up in Windows, I LOVE Age Of Empires II. Anyway, it's a simple matter of money. I'm broke. GBA is more my price range, and I'll stick to that. Also, none of the games appeal to me. Once they get some high grade adventures, or the next non-online Phantasy Star, I'll think about it. I don't own a PS2 right now, for a variety of reasons, but the strongest, aside from the fact that all my cash goes into the "Ray must shoot pool" fund, there are no RPGs worth playing on it yet. And RPGs are what I'm all about. Sure, I like a lot of different games, but RPGs are my favorite, and if a system doesn't have them, I don't want that system. I might buy a used Dreamcass sometime soon for Grandia II and Skies of Arcadia. Yeah, I know, I heard they're coming out on PS2, but then I'd have to PAY to play PSO, which is NOT in my gameplan. Also, in all honesty, this is NOT a pot shot...I seriously do not have room on my desk for one. Seriously. Peace, Ray Stryker, off to enjoy Golden Sun....

Ovarian fortitude?

I was semi-interested in the Xbox several millenia ago when I first heard the next Oddworld title would be an Xbox exclusive. But, much as I liked the series' previous games, it's just not enough. I'm not a FPS fan, and Munch looks... well.... like it's been stripped of all that is Oddworld and left a sorry attempt at a 3D Lost Vikings.

No offense intended toward LV. Unless of course we're talking Norse by Norse West, in which case.... Hmmm. Who can't stay on-topic, again?

Extended Warranty Recommended

Erin: The local Software Etc. has already had a couple systems returned. Seems that upon booting up the system and after the logo disappears a message came up in several different languages saying that it needed service. These suckers were fresh out of the box, and they already need repair? The sales associates contacted Microsoft and informed them of the situation. The reps said they didn't know what the hell they were talking about, and suggested that they send the faulty units back to them at a service and repair fee of $55. Ouch. Maybe they won't take such a huge loss on the system after all. Now, I'm not one to wish MS ill or anything (wink, nod, nudge), but if a couple of units out of a shipment of about 30 or 40 are rotten, they might be up shit's creek. One of the returned units didn't even have the friggin' decal on the top of the system, for crying out loud. Sounds like they're in over their heads, hmm? Frankly, if it were me, I'd be pissed something awful. Pay 300 bucks, open the box, plug it up, and the big bastard doesn't work? And then suggest that I pay for their shoddy manufacturing job? At least it doubles nicely as a coffee table... Captain Sarcasm, who plays "kiddie games"

While using this as more ammo against the Xbox may be amusing in the same was that cutting off a cat's whiskers and watching it get its head stuck in a can is amusing, I would say that chances are these kind of problems'll get ironed-out relatively soon.

Anyway, as I recall, several defective PS2s went back to the storing during Sony's initial crush to get them on the shelves.

Bitsies from the cutting room floor

Erin - Rational, Contemporary, and Foolproof Design for XBOX: Color motif/materials: 1. Titanium or Brushed Aluminum cover, with black or grey plastic trim on the base &nsbp 2. or Lucite with aluminum Dimensions: no more than Width 8" X Length 10" X Depth 3" Brings to mind?: Think a Mac G4 or PowerBook or Sony Vaio or Palm V Desirability factor: High What We Actually Got: Color motif/materials: Cheap black plastic with neon green "jewels" and accents Dimensions: Large mid-80's VCR Brings to mind?: Volkswagen Eurovan Desirability factor: Low (High for those unfortunate souls stuck in "Hammer Time") If only Microsoft had been smart enough to follow the examples of the masters of industrial design, we could display our Xbox proudly alongside our color coordinated set of GameCubes and our serious Black/Blue PS2. *Sigh* Another one bites the dust. At least the 3DO and the Atari Jaguar will soon have some good'ol American companionship. - JC "The Procrastinator"

I can't begin to fathom why, in this age of relatively mature-looking, understated electronics, Microsoft lifted their box design from the pilot of ill-fated Marvel comics primetime foray "Generation X."

Xbox fans pray it fares better.

Wasted potential

Ms. Mehlos, I had my eye on an X-Box. It was such a nice piece of machinery, with all kinds of processing horsepower and hard drive goodness. I thought the launch lineup was sorely lacking, true, but I also realized that there was all kinds of potential for the system. I was going to get one, someday. "Was" being the key word. You see, Microsoft made a lot of enemies in the realm of console consumers with that Shenmue deal. I'd spent a ridiculous amount of time on my character's fighting ability, and I'd left my save data on my VMU, just sitting there, unused ... all wasted. Well, maybe not wasted entirely since I did manage to find a boot disc and will attempt to import the game, but it's still going to be a major aggravation. I might still pick up an X-Box. I'll just wait until Kay-Bee Toys dumps their inventory at $20 a pop, like they did with the Jaguar and the Virtual Boy. -Some Random Jerk

I can see where you're sore about the time wasted on save data you can't re-use, but if you're that keen on Shenmue II and plan on getting an Xbox anyway.... don't you think the grudge is a little.... well... counter-productive?

Screwing with the circle of life

First of all, belated greetings. I imagine I must be the last to say so; sorry about that. I don't really care about Xbox one way or the other, but you want to know what really bothers me? From a GameSpot article: 'In a recent interview with The Financial Times, Kunitake Ando, president and CEO of Sony, said that the Microsoft Xbox, which comes with a hard drive and Ethernet adapter out of the box, could force the company to transition to the PS3 earlier than intended. "The biggest threat to the PlayStation 2 is that the Xbox changes the industry's life cycle," said Ando, who feels that it is unclear whether the current PS2 business model is sustainable and that its console life cycle could be reduced to three years as a result.' It bothers me that the system wars have gotten so out-of-control that another system is planned before package deals and price reductions. The article is here. SonicPanda

Well. We all knew hats made of money would turn the console wars ugly eventually.

My sentiments exactly

Hello, nice to meet you, hi. There's a few things I'd like to say about the X-Box~ Yeah, I know everyone hates Microsoft. Let me tell you, so do I; I can't tell you how many times I would like to take Bill Gate's freakin' windows and shove it right back at him...but I honestly don't think that's a real reason to dismiss the X-Box. I mean, sure, Bill Gates certainly doesn't need anymore money and I can see why one would say he should be kept as far away from games as possible, but keep in mind he's not the only one in charge of the project-- hell, I doubt he really does as much as people say he does. Here in France, we have a videogame TV channel (WEEE!) called Game One, and they've have several "Focus" programs on the system-- and let me tell you, it's all just a bunch of young, eager guys-in-the-garage-with-a-great-idea-type guys~, not Bill Gates. Just cause the X-Box is devoid of charm, don't dismiss it for THAT reason. Just like you wouldn't vote for a politician oon base of his charm. I hope. But that's not the real focus of my argument. In the U.S., even though we have a huge videogame market/industry, we don't have an american console. I know I'm not the only one out of you out there that wants to work in the video industry someday, and I'm taking that dream real seriously. I am American (yes, even though I live in France...I'm half french too) and if I were to make a game, it'd sure as hell have to be in English, because my japanese is never going to ge that good (;_;). X-Box people and Microsoft has said countless times that what they're interested in is new ideas from new people! Making an RPG in english is probably the hardest genre of games to make. But Microsoft is out to get new people on all sides of the coin to make all kinds of games. It seems to me that that sort of company/enviornment would be my best shot, someday in the future. Because I don't think Squaresoft would want to here anything from me. Damn. So, even though I really couldn't tell you what titles I'm looking out for on the X-Box, I'm personally crossing my fingers that it will do well... But I prolly won't be getting mine for a while. I do live in France, after all. Getting an American system over here is impossible! I went through loops to pick up my PS2 during my easter break. I hope that me letter has a worthy enough argument to be posted. Also, welcome to the DA! I'm a first time contributor to the DA, too ^-^ ~ tatiana ps- even though i am a girl, I actually enjoy seeing the girl get saved by the guy. Not helplessly, of course, but because I then like to see them get together. yeah, i'm a dork, but not anymore so than the guys. usually when i play rpgs, i either get attached to the girl, or end up putting myself more in her role than the lead's. only sometimes though. but i would like to kill rinoa. gaaak. she was more trouble than she was worth.

This is something I haven't thought a lot about.

While there is no shortage of PC software developers here in the States, American forays into the console market have been relatively few, and have not historically gone over well in Japan, which, in the case of RPGs, at any rate, is where the money's to be made.

If Xbox is successful, it could certainly pave the way for more successful American software companies. However, an American RPG developer would still have to deal with the issue of the the domestic market being small in comparison with Japan's. Just because the console came home, doesn't necessarily mean it'd be lucrative to make RPGs here.

Nonetheless, hoping never hurt.

The obligatory dose of Ian P.

Dear Erin, There are too many big words in today's column, please remove three. Thank you. ~Ian P.

I appreciate your concern, Ian. For your benefit, "                 ," "                       ," and "              -                " have been removed. Thank you for your patronage.

Closing Comments:

Having done my thing, I'm free of my chains till Monday.

Drew's back in tomorrow to love you like I never could.

Why don't you tell him what you think of Sony's decision to stick by the PS2's $299 price tag over the holiday season.

-Erin Mehlos, off to celebrate life in variety of obscene and distasteful manners