Drew,

I think the question here is, what is a "childish" game? If you think that somehow a "mature" gamer is one who plays only games with a) realistic car racing b) women with giant bahoolies or c) blood splatterfests, then I've got some news for you people. You are NOT mature. You are IMMATURE. If you feel you have to somehow prove your 'adulthood' by playing only games with "extreme" content, then you are still too insecure to be considered an adult.

Other game creators feel content that they can appeal to simpler pleasures - our personal desire for violent or sexual entertainment. It works. To a point. But Nintendo asks: what can be done with this medium that cannot be done (more easily and to better effect) with a movie or graphic novel?

Nintendo does things with their video games that are unique to video games. And to really understand what Nintendo does differently, you have to appreciate the core gameplay of their titles - how the 'extreme' games that come later are essentially copying Nintendo's concepts and applying guns and boobs to the surface without understanding the core of the game.

In short, you have to appreciate gameplay, and those who do all think highly of Nintendo. Nintendo's corporate positions and politics have been fairly and accurately criticized in the past, but I have NEVER read a criticism of, for example, Super Mario 64 that said anything intelligent. And you CAN intelligently criticize Super Mario 64. You can analyze the gameplay, how the designer tricks and treats the player in turns. It's all right there waiting to be discussed, but the video game fan community simply doesn't do it. Meanwhile, you have however many hundreds of rants about how "kiddy" the game is because it has smiley face clouds.

Way to miss the point.

-Chris Kohler

Drew,

Nintendo used to be the "kid's haven" where you couldn't find bloody games anywhere. Now you got Conker's Bad Fur Day, Perfect Dark, etc etc. I remember when SNES had Mortal Kombat's blood turned into sweat, and I laughed and turned on my Genesis. Now Nintendo's a host for Resident Evil, of all things!

But I think you meant the games actually made by Nintendo :)

Well, I do like bloody and violent games when they are fun. I remember playing hours of Soldier of Fortune on my computer, where you could shoot a guy in the neck and watch him convulse on the ground, and then surgically remove body parts with a shotgun. But most games by Nintendo have a sort of magic to them that make you feel like a kid when you play. For me, the latest one was Zelda 64. I'm sure that Pikman, on top of being a great game, will also try to instill a sense of wonder and fun, as all those types of Nintendo games do. I think Nintendo's goal is to make you feel like a kid again.

And I'm not embarassed playing that stuff. After all, I play Dance Dance Revolution :)

-KTallguy

There are two games in my life that I can particularly remember thinking of as childish before they were released. One was Sonic the Hedgehog. Yes, I must've been 7 or so at the time, but a blue hedgehog sounded a bit too kiddy for me, oh yes. Oh, how a decade will change things. The second was PaRappa the Rapper. "A dog... and an onion... rapping. Right." basically sums up my thoughts. But it ended up being the game that made me buy a PlayStation. Since then I think I've become much more open-minded, perhaps to an extreme.

During all these years, though, I'd been playing Nintendo games religiously. No concerns of kiddiness arose. I don't anyone bitching much about this until the competition had their Resident Evils (har har) and whatnot. So Nintendo's first party stuff is good and clean. Dr. Seuss doesn't need to be Stephen King, Donald Duck doesn't have to be Spike Spiegel; but they've all done some nice work.

Also handy is the fact that at a random family get-together, assuming an individual will play a video game at all, the probability is greater they'll be willing to have a go in Mario Kart than Perfect Dark.

The day I'm too full of myself to enjoy controlling ant/plant-like creatures to defeat other creatures and rebuild my space ship is the day I die.

Of course, going back to my Perfect Dark comment, that really qualifies as a Nintendo game anyway, coming from one of their non-Japanese developers and published by them. Nintendo doesn't just mean Luigi's Mansion and Animal Forest, it means Perfect Dark, Conker's Bad Fur Day, NBA Courtside, Fire Emblem, and Eternal Darkness.

-Joshua Slone, thinking PaRappa 2 will have to loan him some dough so he can play it.

Drew, I recently started reading your column, so I'm not privy to all the faux pas of this realm yet, but... here goes the rant.

The topic of whether or not Nintendo games are too 'kiddy' is one that has been beaten to death on far too many occasions to count at this point. Having worked at Electronics Boutique for the last 2 years, and having been a video game player for the last 15, I can say that Nintendo has one thing that (most) other companies don't - staying power.

Go ahead and say it - Nintendo is kid stuff, Nintendo is for the simple minded, etc... it's not as if I didn't hear every last one of those slurs while working at EB, or while merely supporting this company over the years. But, if you look at it realistically, Nintendo is THE staple company that you think of when you think 'console'. Hands down. Mario, Zelda, Metroid, all of them. Shigeru Miyamoto, Final Fantasy, even 'Duck Hunt' and 'Hogan's Alley'. Who didn't play those for hours on end? Ice Hockey? Hell, Metal Gear. Don't tell me Nintendo is for kids.

As for staying power, maybe these titles will drum up some memories. Final Fantasy II/III. Super Mario Kart. Breath of Fire. Super Mario World. Super Metroid. Secret of Mana. Starfox. Damn, man, don't tell me Nintendo doesn't have staying power (if you own a Super NES, you own at least 2 of the above titles. Don't lie to me or yourself).

The kiddy factor? Goldeneye. Perfect Dark. Final Fantasy 1-3. Mario Kart Super Circuit. Advance Wars. Starcraft. Ogre Battle/Ogre Battle 64. A game doesn't have to be packed with suggestive scenes (Fear Effect) or gore (Res. Evil series) to be 'good'. A game needs good, solid gameplay, a story, and replayability. And you can't tell me Nintendo games don't have those.

So go ahead and throw stones from glass houses, detractors, but the games that eschew those merits that make Nintendo strong will continue to feel the pressure from the titles that are released for whatever system that Nintendo chooses to release. When people made fun of me for ordering my GBA for the Japanese launch and paying the extra for shipping and import charges on a 'kid toy', I pointed out that they'd be hard pressed to find another solid, in production handheld (aside from WSC, which we won't talk about because it's NOT in English, damn it) they couldn't say anything save for 'it's just kids stuff'. But then came Tony Hawk 2. And Mario Kart SS. And GT Advance. And Advance Wars. And the list goes on, and will continue to go on.

And now, when I pay off my Gamecube two months in advance, with a full prepay of Luigi's Mansion and Wave Race, what do I get? The same 'kid stuff' garbage and 'pre X-Box' competitors' sneers. The next person who tells me that one unreleased console is better than another unreleased console on merit of a few doctored screenshots is going to be run over about 27 times by my Chevette, because I am tired of hearing it. Nintendo has been a strong company for years, and they know how to make games that are fun, intuitive, and replayable. Not innuendo-filled gore fests that appeal to the 15 year old male demographic, but games that ANYONE can play and enjoy. I recently read an article in PC Gamer by Andy Mahood on Kart racing for the PC, and how 'Nintendo bastardized it with kiddy crap like Mario Kart'. Obviously Mr. Mahood has never PLAYED Mario Kart, because he has NO IDEA what the hell he is talking about. Once again, people throwing stones from thier glass houses. I play ALL systems, PC and otherwise, and I know the weaknesses of each. And if one has a weakness that another can remedy, you roll with and accept it, and move on. It seems that system elitists like detractors of Nintendo fun have too much time on thier hands standing on invisible soapboxes when they could be gaming, and frankly, it just makes me sad that they waste so much time bashing a company that they don't give a chance to.

See you on November 18th, with a copy of Luigi's Mansion and Waverace. And Rogue Leader. And Super Monkey Ball. Not because they've got the tits and blood that America demands, but because they've got the panache and excitement that a gamer demands.

And that's good enough for me.

-Rev. Gorėd

Hey you,

I wouldn't be embarassed playing Nintendo. I played Mario Party at a crowded Wal Mart and really didn't care who saw me. I don't like Nintendo because it never grabs me though. I remember playing Zelda 64 and just not being thrilled by it. Jump and slash and push this block and throw this boomerang just didn't do it for me. It's good gameplay, but it's just not as deep as I'd like it to be, and it's not exploitative enough for me to not care about depth. Vagrant Story is one of my favorite games because before you even use a new weapon, you have to pretty much write an essay on your enemy and the materials you'd like to upgrade the sword with. But then Crazy Taxi is one of my favorites because it's one of those instant payoff games. It doesn't really make you work for your fun, you can just turn off all the limits and start crashing into random cars and cause a gigantic accident if you like. So I guess I either want to be personally and richly rewarded, or I want to sit on the floor with a controller for a half an hour or so at a time and giggle about all the virtual property I'm destroying. And Nintendo just never does that for me. And on a side note, I only watch films of Akira Kurosawa caliber, and ultra violent exploitation flicks about pimps and coke dealers coming out of retirement, I never watch anything in the tastes of the common man.

-Gilbert

Drooooooo...

Maybe Nintendo games still lean in a childish-looking direction, even if they've somewhat moved away from that. But I wouldn't be particularly embarassed playing a childish-looking game, especially since a lot of games have their childish-looking moments. I once had someone walk into my dorm room while I was playing Chrono Cross - an intelligent, mature game for aults, to be sure - but at that moment, I was wandering around Water Dragon Isle, talking to a bunch of cute little faeries. I related this to my guest without self-consciousness. I wouldn't make fun of someone for playing a video game that was too bright and colorful, and I wouldn't care if someone tried to mock me for it because, basically, it's a very petty argument. We gamers have enough of a stigma from the non-gaming world without coming up with our own. Thor might compare it to calling someone a geek for wearing the wrong kind of pocket-protector.

-Toma Levine