Column o' clichés - September 22nd, 2001 - Drew Cosner
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed within this column are those of the participants and the moderator, and do not neccessarily reflect those of the GIA. There is coarse language and potentially offensive material afoot. Hidden text makes angry man cry. Don't say we didn't warn you.
Yes, I'm finally back. After nearly 3 months in a foreign country where I could hardly understand a word anyone was saying, and could barely express myself in a manner that was comprehensible to most listeners, it's kind of nice to take up this post again. English is still the most comfortable language for me, so using it to openly mocking people in a public forum really makes me feel like I'm home again. At least until I can figure out how call a person a "crowny fag" in Japanese for liking a game I think sucks. Then I'll have no more use for you people; you can just like sucky games in someone else's presence. However, now that I'm hosting again, without the obligation to thinly veil my sarcasm with a cheeky "happy" schtick, I think I know the only appropriate way to kick off this video game column: by not talking about video games. No, instead I'm going to talk about music. Indulge me this one time, and we can get back to arguing over more important matters, like whether Tifa wears a skirt or shorts. Let me first start by saying that anyone who claims to like J-Pop is either a liar or retarded. I wish I could say that calling Japanese pop a sad immitation of Western pop was just a nasty bit of bigotry, but that is absolutely the case. Boy bands and girl bands have been all the rage in the states of late, and guess what's suddenly popular over in Japan. It wouldn't be so bad, if the people writing that stuff at least managed to manufacture the taste-neutral ear-candy of their Western counterparts, but alas. I can accept that the vocals themselves are probably more appealing to Japanese ears, but there's really no excusing the production. If you're going to make pop, you have to give it that glossy shine; this stuff sounds like it was recorded on the same $100 Casio Wesley Willis has been using. And the rock is just as bad. The popular bands had some nice riffs, to be sure; too bad they tried singing soaring, boy band junk over top of it. That works when you've got the backing of about 12 different syntehsizers, but it doesn't work with rock. It's like if Pat Boone's metal covers were actually sung right over top the original guitar riffs. All of that said, American pop is suddenly that much more apprciated by me. And the song that has impressed me most since my return is the Gorillaz' "Clint Eastwood." It's hip-hop that proves you don't need to be singing about money, cash, hos, and greenbacks, and it's impressively sarcastic to boot. Hell, it's a cartoon band that wasn't designed specifically for a horrible, low-production-cost Saturday morning cartoon show. Okay, so that was wholly unrelated to the remainder of this column. But it did give me something to write about in the intro, so I'd say it's served its purpose. | Oh, I'll show you the list | | My pal Id described The Legend of Dragoon as another "my village burned down, damn you bastards!" plot to quote him exactly. I didn't realize how many RPGs were in that category until he said it. Breath of Fire, Final Fantasy VII, Xenogears, Legend of Legaia ...the list goes on. RPGs are plauged by clichés. It's nice when you have the occasional gem like Chrono Trigger, Earthbound, or Super Mario RPG that can get away with making fun of the genre, isn't it? -Kumojomog |
This letter just reminds me to post alink to Fritz's RPG Clichés Game. You said the list goes on, and I'd say that feature pretty much sums up most of said list. Just a note: do not send Fritz a list of games that don't contain the RPG clichés listed in this feature. He almost went insane in the months following the posting of that thing, despite the note which explicitely states, "As is always the case, there's an exception to every rule. We're not guaranteeing these clichés hold true for every instance in every game, but they're certainly true most of the time." Fritz doesn't care about your stupid objections to his feature, okay? That's my own wording, but I'm pretty sure he'd echo the sentiment if asked for a quote. | Dracula | | Drew, What cliche elements in Rpg's do I hate? Well, im sure there are plenty, but instead of rehashing this cliche topic of a cliche element, why don't I discuss something I actually care about? Dracula. Everyone loves Dracula. He has style, wit and charm. He makes coffins seem great, and the ladies die for him. Literally. If you want to learn more about Dracula, and his achievements in unlife, please go to: http://www.thisisnotareallink.com/~dracula/ Remember, Dracula not only shed lots of blood on the field of battle, but he probably shed the blood of someone you cared about or were related to. -Kandrin (way to late right now) on ice. |
I'm perfectly happy to entertain complete non sequiturs, seeing as today's topic is addressed rather handily by the feature I linked to. So uhm, yeah, Dracula rules. I'm kind of curious to see how many people try clicking that link, too. Moving right along. | And while we're talking about things being cliché... | | Hello all. Let me say that a friend told me about this site and I was amazed to finally see someone that agrees with me on the basis of categorizing rpgs. For years I have been telling friends that they know ABSOLUTELY nothing about rpgs. Categorizing Link as an rpg? Come on people. Finally a site that calls it exactly what it is: Adventure. There is a big difference, and being a friend to rpgs since just before the first Dragon Warrior (Quest) came to America on an 8-bit nintendo. Rpgs are evolving over time and that evolution isn't making some people happy as it goes. Just look at titles that are out now: How about Evergrace (PS2)? That's a prime example to what I mean. Instead of a combat system that gives advantages based on STATISTICS... its based on if you have a longer weapon, how fast you move... etc. Goto a game like Vandal Hearts, Final Fantasy Tactics... perversions to a the original rpgs. You make the difference. You properly seperate the "old-school" rpgs from the nowaday rpg. An rpg is a Role-Playing Game, we all know that. That means you (the player) is put into the main character in a story-like enviroment. With that definition: Link fits right? (sorry but I like to pick on Link... even though Zelda was one of the first games I ever played...) But Link isn't an rpg. A true rpg, means you have to invest time (hence role-play) in your characters. A good Zelda player can beat any of the games with less than 1/2 the secrets, hearts, items found (remember beating Gannon with 3-5 hearts... wow). Try beating the Ancient Cave in Lufia II by running through the first 15 levels without a single fight. Bet you don't make it past 10 like that. TRADITIONAL: What a name. I wrote a letter once to Nintendo Power asking why there are very few of these games on their system, and when they're getting any. The response? "Try Harvest Moon or Aidyn..." Too bad I wrote that letter TWO years before Aidyn came out because of excessive delays. Argh... quickly my subscription was cancelled. [Snip, snip snip. The lame arguments go on for paragraphs after this, but I think you readers get the idea.} -Kail Shadows |
I wish I hadn't seen these kinds of assertions so many times before; they used to genuinely stoke the fire in my soul, leading to a humorous, if mean-spirited, dissections of them. But those days are now gone. So feel as you will, Kail. Yup, you've clearly got the mental upperhand over those fools who'd classify Zelda as an RPG. Sure, the very definition of an RPG is the ability to play a role. No flawed logic there or anything. Yawn. (It's pretty bad that I've even grown jaded when it comes to video game discussion, let alone the games themselves.) | Make $$$! | | Where to begin? Sidequests. This is mainly the Chocobo sidequests. Endless hours of trying to obtain the best Chocobo. Once that has been done, I use the Chocobo once and then forget about it for the rest of the game. How about the character that is completely useless unless you go through a long sidequest to get them powered up. End result being that I just won't use that character. Or when a villain is collecting a certain number of crystals (or medallions) to bring about the end of the world (or to become all powerful) and you're out trying to get all of them before the villain can. Once you have all but one of them, you bring all of the others to the place where the last one is. And the villian, of course, will be waiting there for you. I guess this is doing the villains dirty work. My favorite is this. Every problem in the universe can be solved by finding the right long-haired prettyboy and beating the crap out of him. I must admit that I had some help in deciding these. http://guardian.simplenet.com/text/rpg.html For all your RPG Cliche needs. |
This link is pretty insightful, too. As for side quests, I understand their place: let's face it, the RPG engine isn't exactly brimming with variety. You have your battles, between which you may be privy to a cut scene of some sort, or some exploration of the overworld map and/or town you've recently come upon. Perhaps both. Side quests exist to break up the monotony. However, I'll agree that when a side quest is so poorly integrated that the player is painfully congizant of the fact that he's engaged in a side quest, something is up. And I also am looking directly at you, Chocobo's Hot and Cold. | Insane in the membrane | | Now for the actual topic. I'll tell you what rpg cliche needs to go-- villains who go insane. Examples? FFVII: Sephiroth went nuts after he learned of his Jenova origin (and so he burned Cloud's town). FFIX: Kuja was bent on world domination after he learned he was some sort of a clone (in other words, he went nuts). And even Ultimecia from FFVIII somewhat fits into this category, since the game suggested that sorceresses without a knight could easily succumb to evil/insanity. Squaresoft (and likely other rpg developers) seem to believe that unless we can attribute the villain's behavior to insanity induced by the circumstances, we won't be satisfied. So what villains do we need instead to spice up rpg plots? Villains who we admire, or rather, who we hate to admire. They may be ruthless, callous, manipulative, and liars, cheaters, and murderers. But they fascinate us with their unusual intelligence, charm, charisma, audacity, and ambition. We may hate how they use such qualities to harm others, but we secretly admire or even desire them. For example, have you ever find yourself thinking, "If only I were more audacious..." Why do we need such villains? Because books and movies over many years have shown that the most memorable villains are not the ones who elicit our sympathy due to their insanity (e.g. FF villains). Rather, they are the ones who elicit our fascination and our admiration, albeit reluctantly. Classic example: Hannibal Lecter. Another classic villain, who is very well known in the literature world for over a hundred years now, is Becky Sharpe from Thackeray's book Vanity Fair-- the seductive gold digger who has these rich, lecherous men wrapped around her finger (she defies anyone who believes females are the weaker sex). If an rpg can come up with such memorable villains, I'll forgive its developers for any rpg cliches they use. Paris |
It's kind of hard to call a relentless quest for world domination anything other than a form of sanity, I'd have to argue. And since you're generally saving the world from some villain, that aspect is sort of necessary. I guess one cliché leads to another, eh? Something which hasn't gone beyond the attention of this next reader. | I don't feel like saving the world anymore | | In every single RPG, ever, you are trying to save the world. Why? You'd think in a genre with as much potential variation as the RPG you might be able to find differing storylines. You could say that the fantasy novel is the spiritual predecessor to the modern RPG, and *those* aren't all about saving the world (though I will admit that many of them are). Why can't the ultimate objective be to defeat a rival (when the fate of the world *doesn't* hang in the balance)? Find a lost loved one? Simply survive in a world bent on destroying you? These are often included as sub-plots in RPGs, but I think that if they were the entire point of the game, games would start taking on different, interesting colors. Besides, most of the worlds that you save aren't even worth saving. Bah. -Eightball, really just wants a John Woo action-RPG |
I'd have to say that there's not much more epic in nature than saving the world, which is why RPGs rely on the trick so heavily. Then again, if an RPG could effectively omit this little facet and still feel epic enough to keep my attention, I'd be fine with that. You could cite Shen Mue as an example, but I get the feeling the world is going to need Ryu and company before Suzuki finishes his 18 million chapters up. | Stay down! | | This is only semi-on topic, but Toma's letter yesterday got me to thinking about the countless protagonists that nobly take poisoned arrows, spears, shawls, etc. for whatever greater good, and then understandably my thoughts turned to Reina (or Lenna or whatever you want her called) of FFV. While I guess you can't exactly call it a full-fledged cliché if one character repeatedly does the same thing over the course of a single game, that freakin' girl keels over a few too many times for my taste, usually to save or to motivate a dragon. After about the third time I saw her tip over eating Dragon Grass or walking through poisonous blue flowers I just started laughing at her every attempt at "heroism." She spent like 80% of the cut scenes on her back -- or rather, on her side -- so that at that close of the game, when they spotlight each character and play those little black and white compilations of that person's big moments in the plot, Reina/Lenna's is just a montage of tipping over, poisoned, again and again . . . and again. Stay down, dammit! ~Erin "Zedelia" Mehlos |
Yeah, I'm not really sure you'd call this a cliché since you're talking about only one game, but that is sort of funny. Closing comments: Okay, tomorrow's topic: Nintendo and Microsoft have both been jockying the release dates of their consoles around like nuts. Do you think this will even have any effect on the eventual outcome of the console race? Send me an email and let me know what you think. -Drew "has a way with B-A-L-O-G-N-A" Cosner | | | |
