Double Agent
Repeating patterns - April 17, 2001 - Chris Jones

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed within this column are those of the participants and the moderator, and do not necessarily reflect those of the GIA. There is coarse language and potentially offensive material afoot. And behold there shall be a blight upon the earth, and everything I touch shall wither and die. Don't say we didn't warn you.

FF IV's coming out here, which isn't that interesting... but FF IV hard type is coming out here, which is. I'm not sure how much I'm gonna like this new version - sure, it sounds great to have a shiny new translation, but phrases like "spoony bard" are irrevocably tied in with my memories of the game. FF2's watering down may also have worked to its advantage, since it was one of the first games to focus strongly on story by pushing levelling up into the background. They say backlash never plays like the original, but I guess we'll see.

Onward.

He learned nothing, just made a ton of money. Excellent!
Chris-

Yeah, video game archetypes suck. No me gusta. For example, there's the archetype where the selfish renegade character learns to love his friends and doesn't fight for money anymore (Cloud Strife is a good example of this). Of course, there's also the "boy becomes a man" one, too (Alex from Lunar, Justin from Grandia, the list goes on...). I kinda liked Ramus from Lunar because it seemed like he'd follow an archetype ("coward learns courage," "greedy bastard learns to love people more than money"), but he never did! He abandoned your party early on to set up a big store in the city instead of tagging along and learning important life lessons, which is great just because it's a rarity in videogames.

Snoogans.

-Glass Dragon

The thing about archetypes is that they're supposed to feel refreshing in a story each time through - you've seen the boy become a man a thousand times, but when it happened in Star Wars it was like seeing it for the first time. (Theoretically.) Cloud wasn't much of an archetype, but if you're getting sick of seeing Alex/Justin/Link characters, it might not be because of overuse so much as because it's not being done right often enough.

Turning things around
Wow, Final Fantasy Chronicles. Yummy. I sure hope it isn't slow and load-timey like Anthology was.

It seems to me there are two basic protagonist archetypes: the hero who goes against the odds to claim greatness and the hero who goes against the odds to reclaim greatness. I have yet to see a game where the protagonist totally and utterly fails to accomplish the ultimate goal (if the player finishes the game correctly).

Similarly there are two basic villain archetypes: the doing evil because he/she is simply evil villain and the miguided and/or unintentional evil villain. Also I have never seen a game where the ultimate villain ends up assisting the protagonist in overcoming the evil which he/she has wrought.

I also don't see any real connection between genre and how well the story of a game is told. Although perhaps it does affect how much of a story can be told but a good story isn't dependant on length.

Again my thoughts turn to the possibility of a game where is marked by betrayal and/or defeat yet the story plays out such that the gamer is left with no sense of disappointment or dejection due to such a turn. Instead it would be experienced as something amazingly wonderful and refreshing. Truly it would take a masterful storyteller to pull something like that off.

AL

I dunno that it'd really work to have the villain win - you could have a situation where things more or less ended in a draw or where the hero realized what he was after wasn't really the important thing. A game where the good guy really truly seriously lost after you'd spent 40+ hours of your life trying your best to ensure the opposite would leave me pretty much suicidal, so I don't think it'd be much of a big seller.

Overcoming mental illness the RPG way!
Chris,

My favorite archetype in Role Playing Games is the flawed leader overcoming his mental problems with the help of his devoted followers cheering him on. I like the positive and uplifting message that even though I might be apathetic, schizophrenic, antisocial or suffering from multiple personality disorder there are still people who will stick with me no matter what, cheer me up whenever I doubt myself, and follow whatever plan I come up with!

NinjaPirateMan, seriously not being completely sarcastic

If we're going for some degree of seriousness, that's probably why FF8's story works as well as it does. Squall's a flawed human being who overcomes his intrinsic jerkhood to become a decent person. If you're expecting a standard RPG superhero, it's not gonna work too well, and it's possible that you'll merely find the story trite and predictable. But it's also possible that even if you're not an antisocial loner yourself, you might derive a small amount of inspiration from watching someone, anyone, eventually figure out how not to suck so much.

There's literacy, and then there's literacy
Jennifer Diane Reitz said yesterday that the bread and butter of US book sales is coffee table books. Not true! I work at Barnes and Noble, and looking at the top-ten lists for both Fiction and non-fiction books are NOT coffe table books. Not even close. Oprah Winfrey's book club constantly dominates fiction charts, and she picks books that are at least 300 pages long, and more complicated than simple text and numbers. The ones that top non-fiction books charts are Diet and excersize books, like Bill Blake's "Fit for life," as well as personal finance and self help books like "Who Moved My Cheese?". Actually, in the 6 months I've worked at Barnes And Noble, I dont remember ever seeing a coffee table book hit any of B&N 4 top-seller charts, nor the New York Times chart. Because of this egregious inaccuracy, I also find Reitz' statistic that only 60% of the population are functionally illiterate. Try like 5%. I've never seen any statistic list american literacy below 90%. Be skeptical of everything you read (including this).

--DavPilky, who currently has no email addy, unfortunately.

I don't have the figures on this one in front of me, but I suspect she was half right. Actual coffee table books aren't that big a market, but if she was being semi-sarcastic and using coffee table books as a euphemism for "crap", then she's right - crap does dominate nearly every best seller list you can think of. 60% is also probably an exaggeration (and I agree that I didn't much care for her elitist tone) but it's true that a good many Americans, despite being technically literate, don't do all that much with the ability. I'm not just talking about not curling up with the latest Neal Stephenson novel, I'm saying that even at work, reading and writing don't come up that often. This is the post-literate era folks, make no mistake about it.

The way things should be
Hi Chris,

Daily Radar has decided to show up all of our musings as to what makes a great RPG by, through their combined intellects, crafting what can only be considered the framework for THE ULTIMATE RPG. In fact, not only have they developed one ULTIMATE RPG, but two! It's right here: I'm sure the game industry is chomping at the bit to snatch up these licenses for up for immediate development!

Riiiight.

Silliness like this aside, it made me wonder how much the game industry pays attention to what fans want. After all, if I were a developer bombarded with chaff like this, I'd just want to close the door. Between stuff like this (oh! your game should be like secret of mana and dues ex and fallout and stuff cuz those games ROXXXXOR) and silly petitions, I think that developers are going to be less and less likely to pay attention to what fans are saying.

-Xellosfan

Strangely enough, Daily Radar's ideal RPGs sound an awful lot like computer RPGs, which is fine, except that console RPGs aren't computer RPGs. I couldn't agree more with them about gameplay, but I have negative desire to build a character from scratch and slot them into whatever premade RPG world the developers have concocted. Let's get something straight here - console RPGs, despite their name, don't have anything to do with real "role playing", and haven't for a long time. They'll continue to be called RPGs because they've got too much momentum behind them to do otherwise, but they're more linear stories with a degree of interactivity than free standing worlds wherein you pretend to be someone you're not. There's nothing wrong with either approach, but the latter clearly has a well-defined position in the console market, and it's pointless for anyone to lambast console RPGs for not being more like computer RPGs.

As far as getting up on their soapbox and talking about the way RPGs should be... well, it's probably presumptuous as hell to put up a plot frame and a laundry list of what traits your game will rip off from other games and expect anyone to care. Still, it's not like I can point any fingers, since one out of every two replies I've ever written contains my opinion, buried or otherwise, about how RPGs should be. Even the site as a whole tends to lean towards a certain direction in gaming - witness how many of us froth at the mouth whenever Vagrant Story is mentioned. On the other hand, we have staffers who are as confused as any of you as to why VS is considered even marginally playable... that kind of back and forth is what makes discussing RPGs interesting. It profits nobody to keep rehashing the same old "console RPGs suck/computer RPGs have no soul" arguments, but if Daily Radar's stuff even helps you figure out what you don't want in an RPG, then it's made a worthwhile contribution.

I have Skies of Arcadia buried in my mind?
Chris,

With a heavy heart I mourn the passing of the musical genius and father of all that is punk Joey Ramone. He was a visionary and the music world is that much worse for their loss.

Archetypes are practically unavoidable in any story that you write today because it's the simple idea that the archetype is in everyone's subconcious.

The basis of the archetype idea is that we all, as a race, have a set of characters and stories embedded into our minds that constantly show up in all forms of literature, even videogames. The question is which stories handle them the best or even create new archetypes? My favorite base RPG archetype story (i.e. a new power is being reawakened and our plucky band must stop it somehow)? Skies of Arcadia, it's so base and simple but due to awesome, yet also archetypel (is that even a word?), characters I didn't care. As for characters I've gotta go with Barret from FFVII. The Mr. T character has been found in myths from Polynesia to Spain to Mexico (where he's called Senor T and he says ,"I pity the hombre.").

-Figure Four a punk silently weeping as Beat on the Brat plays over and over in his mind

It's a mistake to confuse RPG cliches with actual archetypes - "journey to the underworld" is an archetype story, "prevent the return of magic" is not, no matter how many times you've played though it. In that sense, RPGs might benefit from simpler stories: a dead serious take on Orpheus traveling to Hades would probably play better than another overwrought story about a band of idiosyncratic heroes as the last hope against ultimate darkness.

The archetype of pure evil
I...I...I... can't mock you. I really can't. I like everything about you.

Woe is me, you had to wait until I was utterly, unmistakably, miserably in love with you. ;_;

*runs off crying*

Princess Jemmy

;)

Ha ha, very funny. Those of you who have been around for a while may recognize Jemmy as a former frequent contributor to this column whose output in recent months has vanished to near nothing. However, this has less to do with the fact that she stopped writing than because she started pointing out my personal faults in some completely inappropriate language, and started droning on for page after page about how wonderful her new boyfriend is, and how lacking I am in comparison. (Hence the crack about how much she loves me, which is the last bloody straw.)

I'd never have imagined that the intelligent, sensitive, somewhat shy letter writer of a year ago would morph into such a shrew, but there you have it. Much like the character she borrows her pen name from, she looks adorable one moment, and then turns into a ravening monster the next. I know the above letter doesn't really prove any of this, but you'll have to take my word on it - she really is a complete harridan. I hope you've enjoyed your fifteen minutes, lady, because that's the last time you'll see your name in my column, I promise you.

Closing Comments:

Now that that unpleasant business is behind us, we can concentrate on tomorrow's topic: character designs. Forget the actual character, what about how they look? What design styles in general work for you, and what don't? What are some specific examples of why? And are those stupid clothes really necessary? Talk to you tomorrow.

-Chris Jones, had all he's going to take from her

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