Double Agent
Super Ultimate Chaotic Trip Through History Pie-eating Time Warp - March 15th, 2001 - Arpad Korossy

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed within this column are those of the participants and the moderator, and do not neccessarily reflect those of the GIA. There is coarse language and potentially offensive material afoot. No hidden text today, so don't even bother looking. Don't say that I didn't warn you.


As the second day of my harsh, dictatorial rule over the Double Agent column has come and gone, I reflect happily on my short but productive reign. Although initally you rebelliously refsed to stay within your assigned topic, after a few mass executions we had much better results today. In fact, the number of good letters was so overwhelming even my cold, dark heart was moved by all the excellent letters I had to trim. Given the success of this first glorious two-day plan, I expect even greater dividends from our new one-day plan which will be administered by my young really old protegé, Zak. Or, as we like to call him, "pookums." But first, let's have some letters.

But we like clichés!

Arpad:

As I see it, RPG's based on History cannot be that great. RPG's based on history would in essence have a predetermined outcome, that most people would know. RPG's are about spiky blue-haired sword wielding heroes. Its about their misfit compadres that unite for a common good (kinda like the GIA). RPG's feature dragons and magic. That's what makes this Genre great. Very few RPG's don't have any of these elements. A History RPG would be hard to pull off. That also shows a lack of ideas... Hey Instead of originality, lets just take something that already happened and voila! Instant Script (Just add water and spiky bluehaired sword wielding hero and maybe some....pie.) Yeah Cherry Pie, Yummy... Pie. Oops I've gotten off topic again. Oh well, History based RPG's equal Bad RPG's even if they have names like "Super Ultimate Chaotic Trip Through History Pie-eating Time Warp."

CM

*Decides to shun the GIA for never publishing his letters...but wonders how since he can't get his letters published*


As I see it, most of the elements you attribute to RPGs aren't very desirable at all. Although they're to be found in a lot of games, they're a lot closer to being tired clichés that hold back the genre than a necessary part of it. While dragons and magic and fantasy settings are just fine, they need to be used in moderation. From this perspective, I'd definitely view historically based games as a positive thing, because they automatically rule out a number of formulaic approaches that make for boring games.

And I don't think you can ever go wrong naming a game "Super Ultimate Chaotic Trip Through History Pie-eating Time Warp."

The Patriot, now for PS2

Fritz,

You really should take over the letter column on a regular basis. I'm now officially a fan. History in games. Great idea, with disastrous consequences. You yourself pointed out Valkyrie Profile as having several flaws when relating to Norse mythology. Hell, we can't even get a historically accurate MOVIE, much less video game. You certainly can't ask for that from Disney, that's for sure. You'd have better luck getting James Cameron to direct Titanic 2: The Iceberg Takes Manhattan.

I've never taken anything I see in movies or video games as historic fact, same as with the sci-fi movies spouting techno-babble. Sure, I can tell the difference between "creative license" and "screwing with fact", but most Hollywood execs can't. All they know is big and flashy lies sell and boring ol' truth does not. Same goes for games.

Hell. I'm surprised we haven't seen Disney's Les Miserables yet (shudder).

-Banjax, clutching his copy of Henry the VIII to his chest and holding Mickey Mouse at bay with a broomstick.

P.S. "Wherever you go, there you are". Isn't that from Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome? Do I get my GIApoints now? What are they redeemable for?


This was something I actually hadn't even considered: we've already seen history butchered enough by Hollywood, do we want it to happen in our games as well? On the plus side, the gaming industry has a decent track record so far on historical accuracy; Koei's games have always been reasonably accurate, and most quasi-historical games, e.g. Final Fantasy Tactics and Vagrant Story have been pretty good at recreating the atmosphere of the time period they're losley based upon, so I'd be willing to see them go further with the idea. The next letter looks at this further, so more on that note later.

As for yesterday's title, I got a number of interesting answers including Diablo, Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome, Mary Englebright, and Confucious, but as many surmised the answer I was looking for was the 70's cult classic The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension, starring Peter Weller as a comic book super hero, neurosurgeon, rock star, and nuclear physicist. As promised here are your GIApoints.

Ask your parents to help you clip it out of the column, and send it in along with your UPC to redeem it for a wide variety of GIA merchandise. For only 3,000 points you can recieve you very own limited edition GIA bottle cap. Start saving now!

Seraph Stalin as a final boss? Hmm, it could work.

Actually, I think historical video games often have the same advantages and problems as ones with a lot of religious references. Pros: a prewritten story to work with that is interesting (hopefully) and that most people will get the gist of because they already know the background, and you get whatever mood or theme the period had thrown in for free (wild frontier, proper Victorian, whatever). Cons: the story writers will inevitably take license, ticking off a bunch of people who prefered the correct version. (You also get the same problems rewriting literature; ever see Disney's "Hunchback of Notre Dame"?)

You can still get the best of both worlds by having the characters just be people who exist in the time period instead of famous figures, but the instant they start actually interfering with history, you've got the same problem all over again. RPGs will especially be difficult, since it's genre tradition for the hero and party to save the entire world ("Hitler was killed by one man. With a sword.") Strategy games and the like (which don't emphasize story or individual characters as much) are better for this, and in fact have been the most common source of historical games to date, but even they have problems. Age of Empires and Age of Kings, though great RTS games, got bashed for being inaccurate as to what technology was available when. And yet the gameplay wouldn't have been as balanced if they had done it the "right" way.

So is a historical background potentially limiting? You bet. Does that make it a bad idea? Not necessarily. If it cuts you off from roads you weren't going to take anyway, you still get all the advantages for no cost. Or if you don't care about mucking around with the course of history, go ahead and tell how a lone minuteman won the American Revolution by slaying the evil King George III (and evidently got written out of history later). Just don't expect people to take your work seriously in the latter case.

Which brings us to yet another option: parallel history. Crimson Skies is a flight sim that takes place in an alternate, more chaotic but romantic 1930's. All the mood of the era plus a few of the historical figures, and no one can complain about inaccuracies because they acknowledge from the start that the game is one BIG inaccuracy. This has the most potential, although it will require the most creativity on the part of the writers.

- ChocoMog ZERO, but you may call me John.

PS: 10 GIA points? Wow. Your competition only gives away tildes (I think they've got a warehouse full of them that they're trying to get rid of).


Again, dead on with your concerns about developers taking artistic liberties with history, but I see a positive side to this as well. I think it's more likely that a developer who decides to do a historical game will try to work within the restrictions imposed by the genre, i.e. the heroes can't all band together and kill Hitler in the end, rather than try and impose RPG conventions, whether they work well or not. The one case I can think of off hand where they've done otherwise is Red Alert for the PC, but even that was really alternative history, which as you say is a genre unto itself. While some mild inaccuracies are to be expected, I think that could be fairly easily overlooked.

Parallel history is an interesting option; whil we haven't seen much of it on consoles, it gives a game all the benefits of the historical context, without overly burdoning it with restrictions. Of course, the downside to this is that it leaves the game open for all of the clichés you could find in any RPG, but it's promising nonetheless.

I want a top hat

Hmmm. The only RPG I've ever played that would come close to historical is Terranigma, and that's not very accurate. But then again, accuracy doesn't really add in to the fun factor. It's probably MORE fun if you get to mess with history, IMO.

Example : Imagine an RPG where you're a Native American -- loads of potential in that idea, and yet I doubt it'll ever be seen. Why? It all comes down to culture. Most games are made in Japan. Thus, if a historical game was made in Japan, it would more than likely be based on Japan's history, not North America's. That's the problem I see with historical games - the culture gap.,/p>

Alas. I'd really like to see a Matrix-type gunfight between John Wilkes Booth and Abraham Lincoln, wouldn't you?

Negative Creep


Quite true; while the Japanese have shown they can do the middle ages pretty well, unless it was in the hands of a a very competent and dedicated director, it's easy to see how a project could turn out pretty badly. Although I'm sure they could do better if they tried, Barret was essentially the embodiment of Japan's stereotypes about black culture, and we all know how that turned out. Still, while this is defintely a potential pitfall, the potential of such a game done right is large enough that and I'd be more than willing to sit through a number of stale, misguided games in the hopes of eventually finding a gem.

And yeah, I could pretty much go for any game starring Abraham Lincoln as an action hero, especially if he wore his top hat. I like top hats.

This space for rent

Arpad,

So far, the majority of games that take place in historical time periods have either been strategy games where you take place in wars that shaped history, or simulation games that let you control the way the people of the time period live. While many of these are enjoyable games, what I would like to see is an RPG where you control a small group of people while set against an important point in history. There are some interesting time periods that haven't been explored by many RPGs - I wouldn't mind seeing an RPG set in ancient Rome, World War II, the American Revolution, or more obscure historical settings like the Aztec or Inca empires in South America.

One of the most fascinating historical books I've ever read is a book called "After the Fact: The Art of Historical Detection" by James Davidson and Mark Lytle. In this book, they look at several events in American history and look at different ways of interpreting information about them. In their introduction, they look at the mysterious death of a minor American diplomat in the time of the Revolution named Silas Deane. While the story of his death at first appears to lead to the conclusion that Deane committed suicide, by looking at the evidence, the authors are able to make a case that the diplomat could have been very cleverly murdered. This sort of investigation could be modified into the puzzle solving and story aspect of an RPG, and could make a very interesting game that let players explore aspects of history that may not be covered in school. I would definitely embrace this sort of game.

And as for your title, by the way, it of course comes from that wacked-out movie, The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the Eighth Dimension, monkey-boy. You can give me my 10 GIApoints while I fill out the Declaration of War, the short form.

Brian Sebby


Correct as usual, Brian. While historical simulations and strategy games have been a thriving niche market for some time, I'm at a loss as to name any actual historically based roleplaying games, aside from quasi-historical stuff like Final Fantasy Tactics. Your suggestions are also pretty much what I'd expect from such a game; controlling well-known historical figures would be extremely restricitive both in terms of possible actions and character development. What I'd like to see is a game about a lesser struggle set against the backdrop of a larger event, say, the life of a Roman citizen before, during, and after the fall of Rome. As you point out, there are also plenty of obscure historical figures who could be fleshed out in a game without contradicting any historical record; I'd certainly be interested in such a game.

The final word

"Historically based games, good or bad? Does the added historical context enrich a game and give it more to draw upon, or does it limit the developer's imagination? Or both? Or neither?"

Yes.

~Ian P.


That about sums it up.

A shocking accusation!

Dammit Arpad!

You remember that letter you posted yesterday about "our little italian plumber"? A friend of mine sent it in to prove that you can get just about any off-topic crap posted on the column. Now I can try to tell him that it was just the substitute letter guy who posted it, but he'll just laugh... Thanks a lot, man.

Sir Farren.

P.S. In the original version, he even spelled metaphor "metaphore", man! For crying out loud!


Don't be absurd; I'd never do such a thing. I printed the letter in question because it was a terse and witty commentary on the human condition. I never print anything merely for being wierd.

A common dilemma

Why do little blue migets hit me with fish?

-Ken Scott


Perhaps it is some sort of miget mating ceremony? Either that or you still haven't taken off that "Hit me with fish" sign I taped on your back last week.

Nope, you're still wrong.

I just couldn't resist chiming in on the whole world map debate. Of course it's true that most rpg world maps essentially would force the world to look like a donut (this is mathematically true, but your construction paper suggestion was nice too). On the other hand, you dismissed on person's letter too quickly. The person who wrote in talking about putting one of the poles in the center and going out from there sounds like they were talking about stereographic projections. Like you said, it doesn't really matter which point you use, but stereographic projection would be a good representation of a globe in a two dimensional sense.

Imagine instead of your standard world map being a square or rectangle, it is a circle. If you go off one of the edges, you will come back on the part of the circle directly across from it (along a diameter, of course). This would be an accurate description of a spherical world, and wouldn't be too far removed from the current world maps.

There are two problems with this though. If you know anything about stereographic projections, you know you have to omit a point in order to do it. But then again, if that single mathematical point is in the middle of an ocean, who will miss it? The main problem is that a stereographic projection rarely looks like the world you're trying to describe. If you've every seen sterographic maps of the earth, you'll know what I'm talking about. They tend to drastically distort the appearance of the landmasses, which isn't really a good thing. But if it's for a game, you can just pretend it all works out, right?

Oh, but for the topic: history in games. I think this will have to go along the same lines as any other plot type. If it's used well, and the game is fun, I'm all for it. I would like to see good rpgs or strategy rpgs set in historical times and places, and not feel the need to cook up aritificial magic and such. If a good game like that comes out, I'll be all for it.

Kirk B. realizing it's a little stupid to more or less say "I like games when they're good", but who cares, finals are over for now.

-Ken Scott


I was a bit hasty in dismissing that letter yesterday, but I still think I'm right. If I'm not mistake, a stereographic projection map is a circle, not a square, as virutally all RPG world maps are. Also, this introduces a whole mess of other problems. For one thing, as you mention, warping of actual sizes is very extreme on a sterographic map, so if the game were realistic, your airship should actually speed up significantly when you reach the edges of the map, since you're now dealing with a much larger scale than at the center of the map. Also worth mentioning, as one letter pointed out, is that Final Fantasy VIII actually did this the right way; if you used the mercator projection world map rather than the globe, when you went off the top of the map you reappeared again on the other side of the top. Hopefully this settles the world map debate for good.

Closing comments:

It's my unfortunate duty to tell you that this will be the last time I'm doing the letters column. Although it was fun while it lasted, over the last couple of hours, it's become apparent to me that I can no longer reconcile my busy spring leave schedule and my duties to the column. Consequently, the new Double Agent from now on will be Zak McClendon, or at least until Drew does Saturday's column. and then until Chris comes back on Monday. But Zak will do everything in between. At least probably. Although I shudder to think what you will do with your new found freedom, tomorrow is free topic Friday, so send Zak some emails about stuff. And, yeah, that thing. You know.

- Arpad Korossy, strong enough for a man, made for a woman

 
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