Double Agent
The ever ominous Final Fantasy IX - December 21st, 2000 - Jeremy Steimel

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed within this column are those of the participants and the moderator, and do not neccessarily reflect those of the GIA. There is coarse language and potentially offensive material afoot. Okay Azriel, where's my money? Don't say we didn't warn you.


Wow, got a wide variety of responses to yesterday's column, lots of good discussion material for tonight's column. A little over a month after its release, the debate on Final Fantasy IX still rages on, and people are holding their ground as strong as ever. I could elaborate more, but I think the letters themselves do a better job of it. I'll just state it once up front: This entire column will be laden with Final Fantasy IX spoilers here and there, so viewer beware. As Chris would say -- Onward.

I'm very happy, thank you.

Jeremy -

You said that Amarant is unintereesting; that he is "A rebel character who tags along with the party just because he wants to prove himself to the game's hero." That's what makes him interesting - he's not trying to prove himself to Zidane; he wants Zidane to prove himself to Amarant.

If you actually pay attention to Amarant's "one-liners," you'll find that he's a loner because, as far as he knows, the only way to use one's power is to go it alone and so free yourself from having to assist and depend on others.

When he meets Zidane - an obviously strong person who is somehow saaving the world as part of a team. He takes this as an affront to his very view of the nature of life: the strong can do what they want, and associating with anyone weaker that yourself will hurt you both. Amarant tags along with the group to find out how they can make the "team" thing work - and, eventually, becomes part of the team himself.

That's what makes Amarant such an intriguing character. He believes in his philosphy of life so strongly that he joins the group to test its validity, and ends up disproving it (Note his comment in Zidane's "self-doubt" scene. "None of us can do this alone."), but gradually, so we can see the change ocurring in him.

Hope you're happy. -

Shale, who also thought thak Kuja was a good villain.


I think in these situations, its best to remember that whether or not Amarant is an intriquing character depends on personal perception and opinion. Yes, Amarant says he's following them around to see how Zidane and the rest of the heroes pull off teamwork, and to make Zidane prove his opinion. However, I don't think that's the real reason he teamed up with them. To me, it seemed like his pride was hurt, and he wanted to prove himself to both Zidane and himself. I think this is reinforced in Ipsen's Castle, on disc 3 (although what happens afterwards ushers a bit of a change, but by that point, it was too late for his character development, I felt). As soon as he thought he had proved himself better than Zidane, he didn't want anything to do with him anymore. But again, its all just a matter of perception.

More disagreeance

Jeremy

Well I was reading your reply to Cidolfas' letter last night concerning Kuja and his ultimate role within FF9. Your comment on how he was simply a puppet kind of stuck me in a certain way, in that I thought Kuja wasn't ment to be seen as a "villian" but instead some sort of a tragic victim of circumstance, who, no matter what he tried to accomplish, was blind to the fact that he really wasn't in a postion of power to begin with in the first place. Maybe....just maybe he is too be seen as a sort of dillusional character living in his own world with no grip on reality. Therein lies the tragedy. What I'm saying is that a villian doesn't have to be seen as a bad guy who's only role is to be a thorn in the side of the hero. They all usually have some kind of motive for their malevolence and I think the writers do a great job as getting this across, as they did with Sephiroth and even Kefka, which I'll explain in a minute. Anyway I think this argument wou! ld go a long way in explaining why people are becoming so dissatisfied with villians these days. The gamer should learn to distinguish between a true villian, and someone who was just screwed over. If you can't tell the difference, you probably won't get much out of the villian. Perhaps I'm reading into it too deeply but it is just a thought.

And for the record, I thought everyone would like to know that Kefka was also a victim of circumstance, and not inherently evil as everyone is making out to be. The more hardcore FF fans will remember exploring the Vector inn and talking with the man inside, whereupon he relates to the player that Kefka was actually Cid's first experimental Magitek Knight, something went horribly wrong and "something in Kefka's mind snapped that day" I'm not making this up. Sorry to burst your bubble, all you Kefka fan's out there, but when it comes down to it, I guess you could say he might be comparable to Kuja, if my idea above has any relevance.

chaoticmagus, who thinks Xenogears should have been called "Neon Genesis Evangelion"


Even if a character is a tragic victim, I still expect their actions to be work towards a greater goal. Look at how many people he slaughtered; Final Fantasy IX has a higher death count than a Quake 3 LAN party. Yet still, these actions typically had no point. If he wanted to get some Eidolons in his possesion, there would've been many extremely easier methods of going about that. Also, you have to consider some of his dialouge -- Kuja is constantly going on about his grand-scheme which he never really divulges, and no matter what happens to him, it coincidentally fits perfectly into his orchestrated visions.

Let's consider some other Tragic Victim bad guys in the Final Fantasy series. Golbez, Kefka, Sephiroth, Seifer, Edea, and so on. In a matter of personal taste, I don't think Kuja really approaches the level to which those characters pulled off the tragic villain act. Each one one of those characters who was acting because they suffered a tragedy made a goal for themselves; something to work towards, rather than just running around and destroying things. Because of their tragedy, there was something they wanted, or wanted to do, and they let loose all morality in attempt to accomplish it. Look at how well Seifer was portrayed and contrasted in Final Fantasy VIII. Squall and Seifer weren't all too different from each other in the end. Given their attitudes and character styles, where they wound up in the story was a matter of circumstance. Squall could've wound up in Seifer's position and vice versa had a couple scenes gone just slightly different. This becomes extremely defined when both characters share similarities, such as when Squall tells Rinoa he'll be her knight. Kuja never really has that throughout the game; no reason of circumstance to continue acting, just random murder. Its not until very late in the game that we're given a situation for him to truly have an excuse to continue with random destruction, and by then he's already done so much that it doesn't seem like a major change.

Genius gone to waste.

Jeremy,

You know what would be really ass-kicking? Final Fantasy Tactics Legos.

~Ian P.


That would actually be astoundingly cool. "Why, when I was a youngin'," I used to have a lot of Legos with a medieval theme, included the little lego men with their little plastic lego swords. I'd say it's a pretty close match.

Oops, guess I forgot to answer that part of his question

In response to AWJ's letter about FF5... you need to realize that most of the people who said FF5 was a horrible RPG also throught FF4's death defying characters, giant mechanical whale, and overdramatic dialogue made it the best RPG of all time. As a result, their opinion doesn't matter. ;)

On a more serious note, FF5 was probably my favorite of the SNES FFs. Yes, if you did screw up with your decisions on skill choices you were more or less screwed, however you had a heck of a lot of fun in the process. I personally chose my skills by which made the characters look the coolest. So what if Lenna was worthless as a Dancer. At least she looked cute while doing it. Picking classes for our hero Bartz (or Butz or whatever) was a bit more dificult since he looked like a friggen moron as just about everything, but ah well.

-Neil


Even though Final Fantasy V gave me problems when I made a bad choice regarding my approach to jobs and skills, I still thought it was a great game, and it only got better later on. Contrary to some of the opinion people wrote in with, Final Fantasy V was very well received by everyone I know who played it. I was lucky enough to get my hands on the original cart back in the Good Ol' SNES days, although I didn't play too much of it due to may complete lack of Japanese then, but I had a good idea of what to expect. Some people may not like the game because they found themselves in a situation like mine, and didn't have the patience to claw themselves out of the hole they dug. However, truth be told, I really can't blame them for it. Its rather depressing to get almost half way through a game and risk having to start over.

This just in: Final Fantasy X to star the Hitokiri Battousai

Being one who feels compelled to collect the character designs that companies put out for their RPG, I've started to notice a strange thing. Most RPGs, being from Japan, seem to make use of anime-style character designs as a preferred illustrative style. Being an anime fan myself, I rather enjoy this. But there's a black sheep in the fold, and it's name is......Final Fantasy.

For some reason, Square seems adamant about not mixing the FF series with anime/manga-style designs at all. FF7 came close, having a sort of feel that was a mixture between 'illustration' and 'anime', but it wasn't full-out anime, such as, say, the Breath of Fire series. My question is simply "Why?" Do they feel as though anime-designs will turn off American audiences? But yet, they insist on 'beating around the bush', making characters that look somewhat 'anime-influenced', such as FF9. And to top it off, they claim Amano as the character designer, when, as far as I've seen, they design the characters whatever way they want without his illustrations. One needs only to look at his art of Rinoa and the actual Rinoa as appearing in FF8 to see this. Also, while I enjoy his art, I don't feel it's effective in design for a video game. The 'concrete' illustrations of artists such as Tetsuya Nomura accomplish the task of setting a definate look for the characters and world better than the ambiguous art of Amano. But whoever the artist, FF seems to actually TRY to distance itself from anime-style artistry.

Square seems not only to dislike the idea of making an anime-FF game, but also to continue using an artist with an ambiguous (though still good) style, whose drawings they seem to ignore when actually digitizing the characters. Are they trying to define FF as being 'counterculture', or do they just have a couple 'Save 25% on Amano' coupons they need to use up? Do you see the designs of anime as a possibility in Final Fantasy's future?

- tenken


I'm inclined to agree. I rather enjoy anime, including the one where your nick comes from. I don't watch many series; I tend to just pick a few I like and stick to those. As far as anime influences go in games, many people seem to think that games are becoming more anime-like. However, with a few exceptions such as Fear Effect, most anime designs never get further than the character art. Well, at least in most of the games that make it too America. As far as why Square hasn't tried it in any of their marquee titles, I think you're pretty much right. Remember that the Final Fantasy series is a big ticket all around the world; I'm sure they'd be cautious with anything that would risk limited appeal.

Would you like fries with that?

Dear Square,

I have heard from theGIA.com that you are considering re-releasing Final Fantasy 4 and Chrono Trigger in the US as Playstation(1) games. Speaking as a gamer who has long wished to re-live the great experiences that each of these games brought to me in the past, I can promise that if you choose to re-release them, I (and many of my friends) will buy copies of both.

Honestly, my life has been shaped by the experiences I've had in the past, and Square's old SNES games are no small part of that. The choices I've made in recent years concerning university studies and career path are partially due to these games. I know that sounds like blatant over-important fanboy-ism, but regardless, they were defining moments for me, and thosands of others. The road to my current job in Silicon Valley I can trace back to these games, along with a few others. They are valuable to us, and we'd love to have some of that back again.

And if that reason isn't enough, take a look at eBay, and see the money people are willing to shell out for USED CT and FF4 SNES cartridges. That money could be yours!

Sincerely,

Dave Marsee


I don't think there'd be much left of the GIA if we started releasing Final Fantasy IV and Chrono Trigger for the PSX. I'm sure Square would really appreciate the effort and all, but that whole copyright issue keeps getting in the way of things.

What that story actually meant was that Square themselves is considering bringing the games over to the west in PlayStation form. You'll want to direct your publishing requests to Square; every email you send will help get these classics rereleased on our shores.

Return of the Sexy Drawve

I don't understand why some people find it so hard to understand why the FFVIII characters and Squall in particular, weren't liked. RPGs, Role Playing Games. What roles do gamers want to play? Someone who's full of angst, who's disfunctional and has an antisocial personality? Someone who needs therapy?

They want to play someone who doesn't have the problems they have in their own lives. Someone who can smite their problems with a massive sword until they go away. Someone with problems that don't have to be worked out in a mature and rational manner. They want to escape their lives, not live out their life in a "fantasy" setting.

The entire point of RPGs is a fun escapism when life gets too hard, when there are no parties to go to, when finals get to tough. I am one who enjoys level building to become powerful and blaze through everything in my way. I can't do that in Real Life. In that respect I again prefer FFIX over FFVIII, it's just more fantasy to think you get "points" from monsters to get stronger.

SSJPabs,

who shouted "I want the SEXIE DWARVE!" whenever FFIX got boring, and it was all okay again


See, therein lies a problem. I'd have to say that Squall was easily my favorite hero in a game, ever. Some people want the hero to be the ultimate good-guy idle; the guy who never lets anyone down, is always optimistic, and would never hurt a fly. For people who like that (and only that) type of character for a hero, then no, I'd never expect them to like Squall. However, some people like characters who are real, who can be related to. I think that's a difficult route for a writer to take. Anyone can script a happy-happy good guy, but an author has his work cut out for him when he tries to make a character seem life like and real. Was Squall a jerk sometimes? You bet. But hey, I can be a jerk sometimes too. We all can. And that jerk wound up saving the world. How's that for escapism?

A winner is [someone]!

So, what happened with the Name Game contest? Who won? What were the answers? Details, man, DETAILS!

-CaspianX (And while we're at it, is ANYONE working on the GIA Message Boards?)


In regards to the Name Game contest, entries are being looked over, and a winner should be chosen soon. Remember, this is people sending in lists of up to one hundred names, and each list needs to be counted and verified. As far as the message boards go, well, the best we can do is apologize for the delays. As some people who were desperate enough to use the Delphi boards suspected, work on the boards was hindered by college and finals. However, those have just recently ended, and work has begun to get the boards back up ASAP; we're hoping for resolution over Christmas break.

*tinkle, tinkle* (Chrono Cross spoilers)

A few notes...

Vivi's kids - it's perfectly possible that once they found out how Kuja made them, the black mages could manufacture some more of their kind. (probably fixing that little short-lifespan problem too) All they need is a little mist and the knowledge. Why do you think the black mages took so much interest in hatching that chocobo egg? It could partially be because like Bobby Corwen the chocobo, they also came from eggs.

Kuja - hm, disappointing really. Definitely the worst villian the series has seen so far, but still of a high enough caliber to give you a challenge and I know I hated him a few times, mostly because of his goddam arrogance.

Neclord - anyone else have flashbacks to the Time Devourer in Chrono Cross? This guy came out of NOWHERE, and you don't even kill him! (he changes his mind about killing you and runs off.) On the other hand, he's damn tough. (took me about 4 or 5 tries to kill him, and my levels were in the mid-fifties) One time while fighting him, he used Blue Shockwave, Firaga and something-Cross before I had a chance to even make my first move! Shame about the Yoda quote - that had me in stitches thinking of the sheer stupidity of putting that quote there. Final bosses that attack with Status Ailments (Exdeath, Neclord) are definitely harder than than those who just have raw power (Kefka, Ultimecia) The exceptions are Zeromus (raw power, but HARD) and Sephy (uses status ailments, but easy) And coincidently, the raw power bosses are from games 4, 6, and 8, while the status bosses are from games 5, 7 and 9. It's another odd/even pattern!

Oh, and the end sequence ticked me off. What's with having subtitles at the bottom of the screen? You often can't tell who's talking! Does Fratley say he doesn't want to lose Freya, or is it the other way round? Good otherwise though.

Kett Shee

"No cloud, nor squall shall keep me from you." - ???


A couple of your points needed addressing. First off, regarding the "How could Vivi have kids??" debate, let's remember one thing; no where in the game is it ever said that the Black Mages were robots. They're made of Mist, just like the Mist monsters, which are fully organic. The Black Mages are also born from eggs. While its not a pretty thought, they could be 100% organic beings, and just not have a free will. Also, let's not forget the infamous 'tinkling' scene between Zidane and Vivi. I don't think we need to go into details, but if Vivi is going to pee on Eiko's front porch (go Vivi!), he has to do it with something.

As far as Necron goes, I felt his presence wasn't needed at the end of the game. Yes, I agree that he was explained enough that he didn't feel like a complete waste of space, but I just don't think he was necessary. On the contrary, I thought Lavos fit into the end of Chrono Cross pretty well. Why? Because he was a pre-existing being to the world of Chrono Cross, in the "Chrono Cross is a sequel, even if just barely" sense. As Chrono Cross expanded on Chrono Trigger's plot, 'he' didn't have the down side of being a completely new evil, ominous being thrown into the mix; rather, he was an evil, ominous being who's presence on the planet caused all the trouble which fueled Chrono Cross and Chrono Trigger.

The Anti-solution

Hey Jeremy!

Your mile-long response to the letter about story comlexity got me thinking (and I do nowhere near enough of that these days, so thank you).

What also works well in books, especially fantasy novels, is a long journey to somewhere, especially with a small party. During these journeys, anything can happen that might temporarily divert the party from its original goal, and there is ample time for character development and the building of relationships between party members. That's one thing that could be used more in RPGs too : that's why I liked the "chase-Sephiroth-clause" as Cidolfas called it, so much. It gave the party an excuse to be on the move, and all the diversional fetch quests had at least some character development in them. (Red XIII's past, Cait Sith's betrayal, Barrett's past, etc.)

On that same note, I think FFVII is a great example of how a game's plot can be slowly but surely divulged to the player. Sure, you have hour-long explanations (like Cloud's in Kalm), but they're presented really well, and are very understandable thanks to the methodical pace they have (I could almost hear Cloud painstakingly piece together the story, beginning to end). And what wasn't immediately clear was intentionally left ambiguous, and with enough background info to create your own theories, spawning months of enjoyable debate on the internet!

In conclusion, I think that FFVII's pacing was very good, and other developers (or even Square itself) could take it as an example.

Sir Farren, feeling free to disagree


I too think Final Fantasy VII had great pacing; its world had a very continuous feel without individual events becoming unbalanced. However, I really don't think sending people on a 'quest' or 'adventure' to extend a game is necessarily the best way to freshen up the genre -- that one's been done just a few times.

I do, in fact, wash, thank you.
Alone for ahwile, I've been searching through my hair
For traces of the eggs you left inside my silky locks.
To live by picking up the larvae that remain,
Melodies of Lice - love's lost parasite.

- Toaster Thief


As I felt the column was liking eductional value, I decided to include this finally written song to promote the arts. Consider this my way of saying "Merry Christmas!"

I don't hate it, really

Hey man.

I'm enjoying this Final Fantasy IX stuff that's going around. You love it or you hate it. I think I should speak my mind.

=)

You know from our talks over the past two years or so (although not recently) on IRC that I dislike Final Fantasy VII and VIII. So I obviously went in with a nebulous mind when I bought FFIX and started to play it. But hell Jeremy, it is really good. It's my second favorite Final Fantasy of all time, second to only FFVI. But dude... Tales of Destiny and both Wild Arms games? You can't beat those. We both know that. =) Later man.

-Colin "QuickMan" Moriarty


Long time no see, Moriarty-meister. I felt inclined to reply to this letter for two reasons: 1) This may not seem pertinent to some, but trust me when I say to hear Colin be very pleased with a new Final Fantasy title is definitely a key sign that Square did something right. Secondly, I want to make it clear that I absolutely love the game as well, even though this column may seem like that's the farthest thing from the truth. While I was admittingly dissapointed in the execution of a few of Final Fantasy IX's characters, I really liked the rest of them. I think Final Fantasy IX is a good example (for me, at least) of what Drew had spoken of a few columns back, regarding how in RPGs the whole can be so much more than the sum of the parts.

At a loss for words

JS,

As I was showing the ending of FF9 to a friend, a thought occurred to me: why is it that heroes never really have anything interesting to say to bad guys? It always seems the best lines are reserved to the bad guys and all the hero can say to an almost-omnipotent evil is "I want to live!" or "Prepare to die!" or something weak like that. Sure, I guess it'd be hard to trash-talk a boss that personifies death, but they gotta at least try, right? Think FF6-9, or really any other RPG out there. Has any of them featured heroes that mocked the last boss? Wouldn't it be better if they did?

Just a thought.

-Red Raven


That's actually a really good point. Heroes always seem to waste their speeches on their fellow party members who get chronically depressed, rather than the enemies. I agree that it'd be nice to see a hero go off on the last guy he's going to battle in a game, although not necessarily 'trash talk' him. A well thought out, condemning, speech would be nice sometimes. Perhaps one of the reasons we don't see this, however, is because typically by the end of the game, most heroes are expected to be the perfectly nice good guy.

Innovation versus tweaking

Since you recounted something I'd said last night, I thought I'd write in to set the record straight, and say a few other things to boot. When I was talking about how dull story problems come from fantasy, I actually did mean "fantasy"--dwarves, airships, wizards, the whole thing. It's similar to the way comic books right now are stagnating because of an overreliance on superhero stories, though there are hundreds of other things you could write about.

On the other hand, I *also* agree with what you said I'd noted. There are better ways to tell a story than to take the form "boy goes out on world-spanning quest to rid the world of evil," as I was trying to get across in my Persona vault. And it's not even really a problem of trying to stretch the plot to fill 45 hours. There are plenty of other things you could do in that time.

Why not go the Odysseus route and tell the story of one man trying to find his lost love? No party members, no cute sidekicks, just one guy and his fully realized quest. Or an RPG where, instead of amassing an army, you start out as a general or admiral with hundreds or thousands of men under your command? Let me tell you, even when the military leader is only one part of a much larger scale war, if you make that leader charismatic enough I assure you he can hold the story for that long. How about an RPG where, instead of digging up ancient technology, you play the inventor of that ancient technology in that ancient world, and you're going around trying to discover the ideas and equipment you need to finish, while grappling with the problem of whether you should be making this thing at all. Manhattan Project RPG, anyone?

And that's what I came up with off the top of my head, in the space of half an hour. All of these ideas, and more, are one hundred percent setting-independent. A developer could breathe new life into RPGs by putting any of them in a fantasy setting, or by putting an old idea into a new and interesting setting, or even by putting ... a *new* idea into a *new* setting. Anything would work. So why is nothing being done?

--Nich Maragos

nichm@thegia.com


I think my brain may have mixed two similar quotes from two similar conversations, so apologies are in order for that being slightly out of context. But as you said, the same basic point still comes across: videogame stories have, to this point, never really diversified.

Now, I can still highly enjoy a 'fantasy style' RPG story, and I don't want them to go away, but I agree that writers haven't taken the liberty of exploring other options available. I think one trend in the industry is that while aspects of games are innovating, the games themselves aren't. And when only a few minor aspects of games are innovative, is the game in and of itself innovative, or just tweaked? Yes, many recent RPGs make claims to being innovative, but are they? They take the same basic forumla seen in most every other game and freshen up a few aspects of it. While even these changes can be welcome, as you yourself said, why not go back and innovate that basic concept with something different? From here, innovation will flow, and you'd have truly original gameplay likely. You can't take one of the ideas Nich mentioned and give it a normal RPG gameplay system and expect it to be popular. You'd have to work something new in from the ground up, and that's where said product would become something new unto the market.

As for why this hasn't been done, I can only assume the stereotypical reasons. First off, fantasy-style RPGs are time-proven to sell. Whether or not someone would consider this unfortunate, companies will always be leery to take a road less traveled when massive investments are involved. Also, to risk what may sound like an elitist statement, I don't think the standard game designer's thought process works that way. When most people want to make a creative new project, they typically, out of habit, think about what's been done, and how to improve on it. Sadly, I think very few people truly have the vision needed to start a new project with absolutely no comparisons in mind, and to create a work of art from ground up.

I should learn to finish my thoughts

Jeremy,

I Think the word you were looking for in yesterday's letter from Douggie was "depth". Novelists have to ramble on for pages about locations and action sequences because the novel format isn't visual. So unless we all want to start playing Zork again, I'm not too dissas fied with having to run a few fetch/side quests. I think developers are making headway in adding little story features and mini games. The stage combat sequence in FFIX for example. I must have re-fought that battle about 40 times just because it was so much fun. I don't really see a problem with these sorts of plot elements as long as they stay fresh throughout the entire game.I think there is a direct proportionality between games that are visually stunning, and the number of fetch quests you have to do.

~Eidoswetsuit, spent 3 hours flying the Yggdrasil around in Xenogears for no good reason. Except it was fun.


Actually, while depth would be one good thing, I think the word I'd choose would be 'life." There are some games which just don't manage to give its world and its characters a feeling of being alive. It's odd that you mentioned Xenogears; I thought Xenogears was one of the most well-rounded games, especially in this area. The world was very continuous, and everything was somehow tied together in a realistic sense. Although slightly negligable, I think it was these little things that made it such a great game for some of us.

Closing Comments:

Wow, long column. Had a lot of good letters though, and I didn't want them to go to waste. Drew's back tomorrow, so everyone send your letters to drewc@thegia.com. For me, it's been fun, and I'm sure I'll be back sooner or later, so until next time.

-Jeremy Steimel

 
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