The Phantom Topic - December 20th, 2000 - Jeremy Steimel
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed within this column are those of the participants and the moderator, and do not neccessarily reflect those of the GIA. There is coarse language and potentially offensive material afoot. Yeah, so I'm lazy. Don't say we didn't warn you.
Isn't it annoying how, at times, trying to think of a good way to kick something off can be the most time consuming part of that project? Like, thinking of the topic for your latest English essay, or say, a topic for a letters column? Then, do you find yourself at a loss when you try to lay down the ground work for that project? Like writing an outline for said English Essay, or maybe writing a column intro? Do you then find yourself trying to think of a (not so) clever way to get out of that work? You do? Lazy bastard.
No. |
Am I the only one who's excited about Chrono Trigger being brought
over here?
SLS
"Magus is in the Intro and Glenn is a human in an end scene! Yes!! All
is good!!!"
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Don't tell anyone I told you, as this is one of the industry's best kept secrets, but Chrono Trigger actually came out over here in 1995. Shhh, that's just between you and me.
But in all seriousness, I'm really looking forward to the rerelease of Chrono Trigger as well. I imported CT PSX when it came out in Japan last year, and was more than pleased. The emulation in CT PSX is vastly superior to that of Final Fantasy Anthology. The game runs at full speed without slowing down, the FMV is actually story relevant, and the bonuses included are just enough to add flavor to more replays of a game I've played countless times.
What's a Mambo God without Maracas? |
After buying Samba and two pairs of accompanying maracas I've had tons of
fun being a Samba evangelist to friends and family. My family enjoyed the
game so much, I decided the game, while a bit expensive, would make a
wonderful Christmas gift to the lot of them. But what do I find when I hit
the local EBX, the very same place I bought my two pair a short two months
ago? The maracas are discontinued!?! How can this be? Samba 2001's track
list was just announced, they can't possibly NOT have maracas available for
those that missed out the first time, can they?
My only glimmer of hope... A listing in the EBX computers of a $49.99 pair
of "Dreamcast Maracas DC" that didn't have the "discontinued" note next to
them. Did Sega discontinue the expensive maracas in order to clear the
shelves for a cheaper, more likely to sell variety when Samba 2001 hits?
Have you, or your readers, heard anything positive about this situation?
Where you even aware of the situation?
Concernedly,
Nathan
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I haven't heard of any plans regarding Sega releasing a new, cheaper model of maracas, although certain third-party companies are planning their own sets. However, regarding the original set, the Samba de Amigo maracas weren't necessarily discontinued; rather, they had a limited life span to begin with. Unfortunately, Sega only made 10,000 pairs of the maracas, thusly limiting the number of people who could truly enjoy the game to its fullest extent. Brilliant marketing, if you think about it. It goes in with Sega's master scheme of crushing itself by the end of 2002. I have a Dreamcast, and I love the thing to death, but sometimes I really wonder what Sega's marketing division consists of. In my mind, no company has a more bi-polar sales strategy. Surely the same company who made their recent sports titles one of the most widely recognized lines to the general public aren't the same people who cut down one of Samba de Amigo's strong points, right? ... Right?
Poor Drew. (Final Fantasy IX spoilers) |
Jeremy,
I liked Drew's defense of FFVIII. I loved Drew's defense of FFVIII.
But there's a problem, with it. It's hypocritical. Defending the lack of tragic pasts for FFVIII's characters is something that needs to be done, but doing so in a column in which one had
earlier complained that the FFIX characters need more backplot sort of nulls the effect, now doesn't it?
Also, for the record, the game more or less states that Vivi was the prototype for the black mages. It also states that the prototype would last longer than the other black mages. The
purpose of showing that he had had kids was to show that his race had a future- do the birds and the bees of the black mage anatomy involved in the proccess really matter?
-Davon
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Truth be told, I don't think that's hypocritical at all. Certain things work in certain games; nothing is universal. Every game, be it a Final Fantasy title or anything else, is a compilation of various aspects which the game's producer tries to make fit together as best as possible. A certain style for, say, character development, may drag one game down, while it could fit perfectly in another. Let's look at your example given: Yes, to defend the lack of a tragic past in one game, and complain and the lack of backstory in another seems a little off base. But if you look at the two games individually, I definitely agree with his statements. The characters in Final Fantasy VIII were endlessly different than those of Final Fantasy IX. in FFVIII, Squall and gang were very realstic, and in the 'living moment.' Heavy backstory and tragic past flashbacks would've bogged down the games pacing, with the way the rest of the game was designed. On the other hand, in Final Fantasy IX, the characters all have tragic pasts to begin with. However, its not necessarily a bad thing, because it fits Final Fantasy IX's story and pacing well. The only problem is, these tragic pasts are given an important role, and are often alluded to, but are never shown. Rather, we're forced to settle for one or two extremely short flashback scenes that aren't even in the regular gameplay. Instead, in addition to being short, they're also often well hidden, and easily missed.
Big != Complex |
Hello,
I've send this letter to Drew, but since he has got
technical problems, he probably didn't recieve it.
So...here it is:
I just want to go on with that letter of yesterday
about the complexity of the story of games. I like to
see complex stories in games or cartoons and such, but
sometimes what people call "complex stories" aren't
that complex as they are.
You see, this is wrong with a lot of Japanese stories
(well, not Japanese, but you know what I mean), is
that they really want to put the plot twist in the
game, which make you say: "What the ....!". To
accomplish that they make the first three quarters of
the game (or movie) relativly easy to understand and
thereby, most of the also boring, and at the start of
the of the last quarter of the game they introduce new
element B in the story, that really surpises you, but
also confuses you. And to make it worse, they put in
element C and D and E and F.
Like in Chrono Cross, beginning of disc 2, they
introduce element C, which already leaves you with
some questions and then after that there's element D
that gets introduced and short after that element E
which is connected to Chrono Trigger (element A).
What's understandable is the elements A, B, C, D, E
seperatly, but what's very hard to see is the links
between A and B, B and E, E and C, etc. etc. That is
where the complexity lies in and because everything
goes so fast, instead of letting element A, B, C, D &
E introduced slowly in the game, making it interesting
at all times plus making it more understandable.
Instead of playing a game twice or looking at a movie
twice.
The worst thing are actually the cartoons like the
manga "Ghost in the Shell", where I'd rather watch
with subtitling (because I'd like to hear the original
voices) and Japanese people talk so quick, that I
don't have the time to read AND think with subtitles
going that fast.
You see, if a story is good, it's good and I don't
really need to be shocked like that. It actually makes
me wonder: are Japanese people "smarter" than us that
this is a common thing there, or does it lie in other
things, like the translations?
Laterz,
Douggie
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I think the 'problem' lies inherently in something for more simple that what you mentioned. Consider the length of an RPG. On average, gamers expect to be able to get at least 45 hours out of a game anymore, with more play time available if they want to go after all the extras. Now, look at the task handed to the writers: they have to make enough plot to try and give the player the drive to keep playing for that long. Many people are quick to jump in and say "But look at novel authors!", but that's comparing apples and oranges. Novel authors can also fill 10 pages with events and descriptives, and have that have good reading / story value without any actual dialouge. It's not so easier for a writer of a videogame story. Sure, they can throw in a dungeon to extend that time, but that in and of itself won't add too much to the story, unless its a really well designed dungeon.
From here, there seem to be two standard paths most games take. Some games, in order to fill out as much story and play time as possible, just keep building and building and building the story. Unfortunately, by the end of the game, they've thrown in so many 'plot twists', there's no easy way to close the game while tying up the loose ends. As you mentioned in your letter, when you think a game has completely explored a certain story aspect, it suddenly throws in a new twist that was never mentioned before. Unfortunately, these twists are often baseless and nothing more than an excuse to extend play time. Its like the heavy fetch quests that were more prominent in 16-bit RPGs. You just want to go from Kingdom A to Kingdom B, but the bridge between them is down. That's okay, just go get Master Bridge Builder Bob to fix it. Uh oh, Bob's daughter is sick. Uh oh, the cure for Bob's daughter is in a cave. Uh oh, we're going to have to get special permission from the mole people to enter the cave. Uh oh, they want the Sacred Mole Pass in order to get permission to enter the cave. The pass is hidden two towns back in the Mayor's Dresser Drawers. And so on.
Unfortunately, as long as companies insist on 45+ hour gameplay times, I can see this being a continuing problem. Nich Maragos once noted to me that he thought most of the dull story problems in some games came from the fact that all games are fantasy. And by fantasy, I don't just mean the way we divide RPGs (typically 'fantasy' or 'sci-fi'), but the way that all RPG stories are fantasy stories in general, despite their setting. Good guy has dilemma, world needs saving from bad guy, good guy comes to the rescue. Unfortunately, given the length and scope of RPGs, is there really any other story that could keep people playing for 45 hours? There are only so many ways that this basic story complex can be built on. Personally, I believe that developers need to stop depending on complicated stories to further their games. Above, I mentioned that an author of a novel can use descriptives, and other non-dialouge writing styles, to further the 'story' without actually presenting more story. But its not the story he or she would be furthering, its something else which I can't think of an appropriate word for. What the author is doing is these cases is giving the reader a more 'three dimensional' look at a story's characters, locations, settings, and so forth. Personally, I believe these are things game producers can do as well, albeit in a different manner. By creating an in-depth world, which is large enough to explore, but doesn't leave the player stuck wandering fighting meaningless random battles, and so forth, the world can become more immersive, and expand the game on its own. There are, of course, other sides to this. Well executed NPCs, a realistic tie throughout said world (unlike some games, where each town is like its own little world), et cetera. If a game absolutely has to push the 45 hour range, these methods will hold my attention a lot better than another fetch quest which leads into another shocking plot twist.
This whole difficulty thing is tough. (Final Fantasy V spoilers) |
The other day Drew printed a letter stating that for the most part there's
no difference between "easy" and "challenging" RPGs other than the degree
of level building required. I'm a bit surprised that neither the
letter-writer nor Drew mentioned the game which is the most noteworthy
exception to this generalization--Final Fantasy 5.
While it's not exceptionally difficult, FF5 is not an easy RPG. Even
without considering its infamous optional bosses, it's much harder than
any subsequent cardinal FF game (i.e. 6 through 9), and I consider it
slightly more challenging than even the vaunted Japan-only "hard type" of
FF4 (which I have played and beaten).
And FF5 (unlike FF4HT, by the way) is emphatically not a level-building
contest. It's possible to finish the game--including the optional
bosses--with character levels in the single digits, and conversely,
without the right battle plan for each boss you won't do much better with
3000 HP than with 1000.
By the way, something I really don't understand is the widespread hatred
of FF5 among English-speaking Square/FF fans. FF5 is always near the
bottom of the chart when someone takes a survey of favourite FFs. Two
years ago, that could be put down to the fact that most English-speakers
had never played the game, but not now. Today's Squareheads aren't
unaware of FF5, they actively dislike it. It's the only cardinal FF apart
from FF8 to be regularly nominated in "worst-ever RPG" surveys.
The reason I find this strange (besides the fact that I personally hold
FF5 as my all-time favorite game in the series) is that the FF5 scorn is
pretty much confined to the group represented by The GIA--English-speaking
Square fans. Japanese gamers I've had the opportunity to ask have,
without exception, named FF5 as one of the best games, if not the best
game, in the series. And most of the PC RPG fans I'm acquainted with (at
least those who aren't such snobs as to totally disdain console gaming)
name FF5 as one of Square's best works and a credit to the console-RPG
subgenre.
Let me make this a public question: What is it about FF5 that makes it
a pariah to its own series' biggest fans?
--AWJ--
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I pretty much agree with you both. I really don't think pretty much any RPGs are difficult. Some require level building. That's no difficulty; that's tedious. I don't mind some level building, but games that rely on it for their difficulty are the games that often wind up collecting dust on my shelves. Other games make use of systems that can make it easier on you to stay powerful. Of course, in some of these games, the systems are simple enough that staying on top is made extremely easy. Other games balance it well, making it so you can make yourself quite powerful, yet leave yourself somewhat screwed if you make enough stupid mistakes. Then, you have Final Fatansy V. That game was just damned cruel. You could find yourself seriously screwed if you make stupid decisions, like I did. Briliant me thought that, rather than give each person a specialty skill, I'd try to make them well-rounded across various skill types. Well, once you hit the second world, that leaves you endlessly weak compared to your enemies, and the amount of work it took to get my characters caught back up was mind-numbingly cruel. Yet, the game was balanced well enough that I hope to replay it before too long, because now I have some ideas on how abuse the job system.
Good lord, that's a long email. (Final Fantasy IX spoilers) |
Hey. I was out of town during the FF9 discussion *sniff* but I did have a
few comments and damned if I'm not going to make them known. These are
replies and opinions based on letters (and Drew's opinions) throughout the
past few days. I sent this to Drew already, but I'm sending it to you too,
just in case. 8-)
First off, Amarant. His touch-off with Zidane was one of the most
interesting character interactions in the series, in my opinion; it added a
lot to scenes which would be fairly lacklustre. The two don't seem to be
able to understand each other at all (even at the end of the game) but
their extreme interest in trying adds a lot to the plot.
FF9 is currently near the top of my RPG list, simply because it's fun. The
characters' personalities bounce off each other like smiley ping-pong
balls, the pace is fast and fun; tons of secrets and mini-games abound.
It's just entertaining. And every character (yes, even Quina, if you see
the right scenes) has hidden levels to their personalities which enhance
the experience to no end. I couldn't bring myself to finish FF8 the second
time around, but I did FF9 twice STRAIGHT and could do it again if I
wanted. It's easy on the brain. 8-)
And Kuja? I loved him. He was not quite as crazy as Kefka and not quite as
cool as Sephiroth, but an interesting meld of them both. But his insanity
isn't like Kefka's "Hell, I'll destroy everything because I can". He has a
real reason for it - first just plain rebellion against his fate, next his
incapability of coping with his own demise. It makes him somehow slightly
more believable, and it's great that at the end he *almost* repents. He
doesn't act in a particularly logical manner (Dr. Evil comments) because he
doesn't really want to just beat everyone and everything, but to obtain
specific goals throughout the game, all of which he does obtain with or
without the trouble caused by Zidane's troupe.
A rant about villains. People want bad guys who do bad things; apparently
you can't really hate someone unless they do. News flash: You can hate
someone because he is a really big bastard. That's what happened with Kuja.
Someone without any interest in human life - that's a villain. He doesn't
have to burn down villages or kill main characters to be a villain - his
personality is villainous and if you can't see that through the dialogue,
that's your fault, not Square's. (And by the way, Kuja made the Black
Mages, so everything they did was basically him. There's your destroyed
towns.)
Forget about all that, who says there HAS to be a bad guy in a game? Not
everything that happens must be orchestrated by a supreme commander. You
just want someone to blame, and once you have him you want him to be
suitably evil. I think the story worked perfectly fine with Kuja just as
himself, not playing the part of The Villain.
I disagree with Garland being a "popup villain" - he's a very large part
of the storyline. Necron definitely is, though, but he ties in with the
whole nostalgia-memory-series-as-a-whole feeling at the very end. He's just
a cool boss with cool music and rather tough unless you did lots of level
building.
One of the cool things about FF9 is that there isn't a set goal through
most of the game. What people don't realize is that frequently real life is
like that. (Minus the eidolons and moogles, of course.) You don't always
have a clear goal; you have to walk around, make connections, and
eventually things will fall into place and you'll GET a goal. I thought it
worked rather well (far better than the chase-Sephiroth clause through most
of FF7).
Oh yeah. You mentioned something about video games should start being more
subtle (in that Necron was an overly overt manifestation of the game's
theme). This from a mailbag man? You should know by now that most people
who play a game end up being clueless or drawing the wrong conclusions even
from the most obvious storyline... you want to start hiding them in even
deeper metaphors now? I shudder to think of it.
And then there's Dr. Uzuki's letter from the 16th... man. For starters,
quit the unoriginality thing. There are so many games out that there's
bound to be something from other games. You can't tell me the plot isn't
better than FF2 because both have people using summon creatures to take
over the world. You have to see plots in here-and-now contexts, not try to
compare them to other games. Hmph.
Vivi can live so long because he was the "prototype" - he's not a regular
black mage. You have to pay more attention. 8-)
Random battles? There IS an "return-to-the-old-times" idea in FF9, and no
random battles would be tantamount to sacrilege. I personally didn't find
them too annoying; they were pretty challenging for different reasons at
different points in the game. I reached the end at level 57 and beat the
last guy... there's no point in leveling up more besides trying to beat
Ozma (which I STILL haven't done). I never needed leveling up (although I
did need Gil sometimes).
Comparing Garland with the beach scene in CC? Please. I've played CC four
times and still don't understand that bit, but I got the Garland part first
time around; it's not that complicated.
I've rambled on enough, print what you like (or even better, what you
don't like.) Later!
--Cidolfas
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I thought Final Fantasy IX was an wonderful game. But its a videogame in the end, and like all games, it has faults. I personally felt is was far more linear than it should've been, and I wasn't the biggest fan of Kuja either. But that's okay, because the game did a damned good job of keeping me entertained anyways.
As far as some of your character write-ups went, I'll have to disagree at least on Kuja, as I said. My main problem was tht his actions were pointless. To me, he was just a standard "I'll destroy things because I can" villain. However, more annoyingly, he was a "Mwa ha ha, I am an evil genius who is acting towards a great evil scheme" villain. The combination of those two styles was what left his character lacking. Due to his having two different enemies, his actions were made less shocking. Sure, he could blow things up on Gaia to get at Zidane and crew, but that would be helping Garland. He could not destroy things on Gaia to stop aiding Garland, but that'd help Zidane. No matter what he did, he was a puppet to one side or the other. And as far as Amarant goes, I can't even begin to claim to understand how someone could find him to be such a fascinating character. A rebel character who tags along with the party just because he wants to prove himself to the game's hero and make challanging one-liners isn't exactly a fresh concept.
Let's see what the Magix 8 Ball says |
Jeremy,
Sure, I may not be the general authority on the industry's past,
present, and current direction, but that doesn't stop me from concocting
my own half-assed assumptions and imperatives that I expect the
developers in Japan to take.
FFX has already been announced to have a "super-realistic" feel,
probably as a counterweight to FFIX's super-deformed aesthetic. What I
would really like to see as a complement to the graphical style is an
equally realistic cast of characters, motives, and/or reactions to
situations. Square hit close to the mark with this in FF8: Squall was,
in my estimation, one of the most realistically-motivated characters in
any RPG. He wasn't just a "Silent Badass" type like Cloud was (at least,
how Cloud was for much of the game).
I would like for RPGs in general to adopt more realistic motives and
reactions. In response to Goddard in yesterday's column, being realistic
does not mean seeking out the most mundane and trite occurances of
everyday life and making a story out of them: it means that the
characters in the story react as real people would react to the
fantastic situations they're thrust into. (As an example, take Squall's
words when Rinoa gave herself up to the enemy, and his companions were
trying to convince him to go after her: "It was her decision. I have no
right to change that." I can't imagine any other RPG protagonist ever
coming close to saying something that hits the mark so cleanly.)
As a secondary and slightly less-important wish, I'd like to see RPGs
have more instances in which the heroes lose completely. There's a
mistaken notion that if you've just got the will to win, or enough love
from your comrades, or whatever, you're going to beat that dragon even
if all you have is a big stick and a pot for a helmet. I think Aeris'
death is an excellent precursor to what I hope becomes a trend: that
sometimes the heroes lose something important. What would have happened
if the missiles actually hit the Garden in FFVIII? What if Celes had
succeeded in committing suicide? I'm not saying I'd have preferred for
either of those instances to occur, but I'm in favor of a more realistic
struggle in which both sides lose something, instead of a one-sided
"good beats the hell out of bad" thing. FFT was a good example, as far
as games go.
-Matt Blackie
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Me, personally, I don't want to see the gaming (RPG specific or not) industry take any one specific direction. I prefer variety in my games. If every game was realistic like Final Fantasy VIII, a game I thought was amazing, I'd get sick of that too, eventually. Right now, the RPG and Adventure genres are slowly diversifying, and I'd be happy just to see them keep this current pace. Some classic-style RPGs are coming out, some innovative RPGs, some games that blue the lines between RPG and adventure, and so forth. Just because one game fits a certain one of those RPG styles doesn't make it a better game, to me. The merits of the game itself is what decides how good a title will be. From there, if enough games manage to be enjoyable, I'd hope that there would be some variety left between them to keep the gaming industry fresh.
Closing Comments:
Sorry to break your hearts, but Drew isn't out of repair-land just yet, so I'll be back tomorrow as well, so keep those letters rolling. Until next time -
-Jeremy Steimel
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