Disclaimer: The opinions expressed within this column are those of the participants and the moderator, and do not necessarily reflect those of the GIA. There is coarse language and potentially offensive material afoot. Perhaps Alex will wax Britney with you. Don't say we didn't warn you.

In taking last semester off school, somehow I managed to forget what it was actually like.

In fact, prior to today I was ... well ... looking forward to it.

Round about the time I was sprinting headlong through the slush the last 3 blocks or so between the auxilliary parking lot and the art department, fifteen minutes late for my first class of the year and medically needing to pee, I was acutely aware of how I'd so easily managed to put it aside.

Not that you people really give a shit about my academic well-being or lack thereof - my delusions of grandeur aside, I'm no celebrity. My every word, gesture and bodily excretion are not likely to wind up on the cover of People. And no one, thankfully, is likely to render my ass in polygons and stick my likeness in a game for you lot to bitch about at length in a public forum....

Let's go.

Really not a jerk - he promises

.... [sigh].... Alright, fingers are crossed that i don't fuck this up, again. Apparently i didn't say the right thing, the right way. Please allow me to address you all once more, having soaked my head. I'm sorry, El Cactuar. I'm sorry, GIA. I'm sorry, readers of DA, writers of and to DA. Please forgive me, if you feel i acted like a pretentious, pompous asshole. It wasn't my intention. I was rude, and i apologize. I was angry about the fact that, of the hundreds of games worthy of the "lasting appeal" mantle, only a handful were mentioned. I made it a point to note that these were, however, excellent games. They are, without doubt, deserving of the title. I own, or have owned, almost every game mentioned on "lasting appeal" day. I've played, and continue to play them, with zeal. I love new games, i love old games. I love most Square games, actually. I enjoyed Secret of Evermore and Parasite Eve. FFVII is in my top five greatest gaming experiences ever, or will be, if i'm ever inclined to make a list. FFVI IS my greatest gaming experience ever. Vagrant Story busts mad caps all over creation. I have Saga Frontier 1 and 2 (though i don't really care for those...)... I will die if i don't get to play FFX soon. But i also have Panzer Dragoon Saga, and, yes, Ys... and i was incredibly disappointed to see these games, and many others, get stiffed in a category they excel at. The games that WERE written in about have the stuff, of course, but everyone already knew that. In my mind, it was far too narrow a selection; Almost exclusively popular, well-known titles that have had this kind of attention given to them by an enormous number of people since their release. Granted, that IS lasting appeal. But isn't the purpose of a DA topic to generate discussion the next day? If we already know the answers, why bother reiterating them? There were many more worthy choices , and i wanted to see them. Maybe i should've written in the first time, but i didn't. That was the purpose of my first letter; To make a worthy addendum (which, come on, Cactuar, isn't such a big word, is it? If you prefer, replace it with "addition") by adding in my opinion on how the Lasting Appeal column was lacking. As noted above, i don't hate anything "just because it's popular"... Rather, as i said somewhere in the jumbled, somewhat tangential, and, i admit, insulting fury of my previous letter, these games (Tetris, Mario, Zelda, FF) have gotten their due, and, while a mention was entirely appropriate in such a column, were they the only ones who were deserving? No. While the comments about games and the subject of "Lasting Appeal" itself that i read were good and interesting, the actual list of titles namechecked was just plain lacking. This is what i was trying to say, in between my excessive ranting on the Turbo-Duo and the state of gaming in general. I'm sorry for that; My lack of focus. What i'm most regretful of, however, is that i made such an ass of myself in front of a good number of fellow game-lovers by being inconsiderate and condescending. I was upset, and it's pretty easy to hit "Send" before allowing your head to clear a bit. We all love games; That's what we're here for. I'd be wont to smack myself in the face were i to let trivialities get in the way of the fun. Good god, let's hope i did better, this time. Thanks, and again, appy-polly-loggies. Love, fo' sho', Adam duke P.S.- You're right, Cactuar- "think outside the box".. fucking hell, Bill Gates is channeling me... Christ. Maybe "think a bit harder for games you don't imagine anyone else would bring to the table." would have been better. Ech.

Hey. I just thought that, since I personally handed this guy enough rope to hang himself last week, it wouldn't kill me to toss him a knife.

Bland ... potato soup bland....

Erin - Celebrity appearances have very little future in vid games, with the sports and wrestling titles as exceptions. Why? Because celebrities are real, and video games are designed to be realisticly unreal. Or something. I just don't think the two mesh very well. Explaining it is tough, but... On the flip side, I think that as video games become more popular, Sonic and Mario cameos are likely to increase... Peace, Ray Stryker, sharing his unwanted opinion....on a side note, FFXI IS a gaiden, like Tactics, so it's not one of your conspiritorial three titles....

This is the most obvious misgiving I have with the whole concept - as well as the reason I dislike many PC RPGs and, incidentally, FF:TSW.

I like my characters fantastic, outlandish, colorful... Can you picture James Van Der Beek with an orange mop swept up into a potentially lethal Mesmerize 'do? Hell fucking no.

FF:TSW left out one of the things we enjoy most about Square's recent FFs - dramatic, expressive, well-drawn (in both senses) characters - in favor of the film's bland, hyper-realist look. And look at how well that went over.

Losing my identity

Hi Erin, Long time listener, first time caller. Celebrities in video games? It's been done. Musicians have had their share of the spotlight - discovering that Michael Jackson was in Space Channel 5 made me curious enough to give it another try, but even my curiosity wasn't enough to get me through the first stage, I was so bad at that game. However, the presence of a musician didn't persuade me to play Wu-Tang, Shaolin Style. Or KISS Pinball. Or Revolution-X. Athletes have been showing up in sports games for a while - from the Madden football games to Barkley - Shut up and Jam, from Mario Andretti Racing to Shaq Fu. These days many athletes do voice samples, commercials - there are even some sports games where almost ALL the players faces are scanned in and put on both their stat page and their respective avatars(EA, I'm looking in your direction). And when you hear Tony Hawk, do you think the actual person, or the skatebording game? Actors in video games? Depends on what kind of actors they are. Regarding live actors, FMV games died a horrible, gruesome death on the PC, so you see none of that on consoles. In Japan, seiyuu are popular. In North America, voice actors live fairly anonymous lives - so do they count as celebrities? (example: there's a good chance you've heard Tress MacNeille, but you've never heard *of* her) In the near future, games with celebrities in them will most likely stick to what Space Channel 5 has done, with the actor lending their voice and the "acting" done by a rendering computer or by some other person in a motion-capture suit. Voice acting is much easier for the actr - and they can show up to work in a bathrobe if they want. You don't see actors doing FMV for the good pay, the short hours, or for the opportunity to 'stretch'.

The versatile Tress MacNeille, in case anyone's wondering, is probably best known as the voice behind Dot Warner (Animaniacs) and Babs Bunny (Tiny Toon Adventures.) Ubiquitous as her disembodied voice may be, she's hardly a household name.

Additionally, unlike conventional thespians, a voice actor isn't always immediately recognizeable as him or herself, anyway - even to those familiar with their work. Vocal, dramatic and dialectal range are tantamount to voice-over talent, which, for better or worse, often obscures an artist's individual identity.

Ben Affleck and Matt Damon in "Good Will Hunting: the FPS"

While Michael Jackson is not my cup of tea, and I certainly don't care to play a video game starring him, the thought of big name celebrities doing the VOICES (not themselves; I'll kill myself the second I see Mathew Perry's Incredible Sarcasm Adventure, "Could I BE in more of a game!!!") of game characters excites me. The first thing that came to mind when I read "celebrity" was the wonderful film "Shrek". It stars Mike Myers, John Lithgow, Cameron Diaz, and Eddie Murphy. They all give great performances without being too like themselves (i.e. focusing on BEING the character). This immediately does one thing; people who like those actors will go see the film. The Mike Myers fans who liked him since SNL will see it JUST because it has Mike Myers in it. Cameron Diaz fanboys might even pick it up and give it a go. And a few people who didn't like animated films before hand may get a kick out of it, and try others of the same vien. This could totally happen for video games. I wouldn't mind someone like Ben Afleck (who, if I didn't know better, played Grey in the Final Fantasy Movie) or Ben Stiller playing some character in Final Fantasy XII (I loathe the concept of dubs but hey if there's going to be one anyway it might as well sound good) so long as their name isn't on the front cover and they give their best performance. Fans of the respective actors and actresses that would star in the game will pick it up. Come for the stars, stay for the enchanting adventure! Personally, when I figured out Wakka in FF10 was voiced by John DiMaggio, I was enthralled! He plays Bender on Futurama! And he's in my Final Fantasy! Very well, that is a good thing! -Spok-

But see, now.... I was mutually enthralled with John DiMaggio's performance as Wakka, but John DiMaggio is a voice actor by trade, contorting his versatile tenor to fit whatever role he's playing. His voice, when recognizeable, may evoke visions of Bender (or Gonza or Zeke, for that matter), but it isn't inextricably tied to a face. I mean, big-name tabloid fodder actors like, say, George Clooney or Sean Connery, will always be George Clooney and Sean Connery first and foremost.

And, while I can only speak for myself, I don't want George Clooney heading up my band of adventurers. The character he's supposed to be playing would take a backseat to his stardom ... He wouldn't be "Darwin Hellbender" or whoever he was supposed to be playing; he would be George Clooney.

Much like General Hein was not General Hein - he was James Woods - and the mind-numbingly dull Grey was not Grey (and not Affleck, either, sorry to say) - he was Alec Baldwin.

.If you ask me, the relative obscurity of the average voice actor is ideal for the video game medium, because, especially in a character-driven RPG, an actor's persona really doesn't belong hijacking some poignant schmuck you're stuck with for 80 hours or so. Who really wants to listen to Tom Cruise bitch about his town having been razed when he was a child?

On the other hand, if someone's already created a role....

Guest spot

Erin, God, I hope this whole celebrity thing doesn't become an issue in videogames. I personally could care less if so and so who was in such and such makes a cameo in a game, but if it gets out of hand, it just becomes another marketing ploy like when some big star lends his or her voice to the Simpsons. It gets hokey and ultimately detracts from the final product. Would I want Pierce Brosnan doing the voice of James Bond in the newest Bond game? Why not, just as long as it doesn't cost an extra 10 dollars a copy because he's in it. Do I want Pamela Anderson doing the voice of Ulala in the newest Space Channel 5 game simply because of who she is? No. No I don't think I do. - Purple Monkey Dishwasher Two things to say, but I'll tackle the topic first like a good little boy. ^_^ Stars in my games? In nearly all cases, considering the type of medium gaming is, I'd much rather they not try that. Imagine a star being in a novel and playing a character- It doesn't quite seem to work out logically, and I think it works the same way in most games as oftentimes all of the characters play an unestablished, firsthand role. Then of course, the stars that merely make cameos (like in Space Channel 5) are usually superstars that anyone can recognize and are generally there for their cameo purposes only, and really don't seem to hurt anything about the game. On the yet another hand we have the stars who are in games through sports (which is fine, since they play themselves) and stars in games based on movies (like Goldeneye), and there it doesn't hurt at all, because that's the point. But hitting the more fundamental and painstakingly obvious issues- I certainly don't want to see Russell Crowe as Mario, or Leonardo DiCaprio as Peach on any occassion. ;) Now to make a brief shot-out for a thought that's been festering me as of playing Golden Sun recently- Naturally we realize the problems with Square going to the GBA, but supposing they did... wouldn't it just rock if they ported FFVII-X+T on to the system, and '2D-ized' them? I'm not anti-3D graphics by any means, and this isn't an 01d-5k001 battle cry, but wouldn't it just be cool to see a well handled translation of the game on to a delightfully portable system? I bet FFT wouldn't even need to have that much tone down on the graphics. Well anyway, those are my thoughts/desires. -chris

I'd be thrilled if the occasional celebrity could condescend to lend their voice to a character they've created on the big screen rather than leaving a developer to endlessly recycle a limited repertoire of sound clips from a movie, or, worse yet, lure some random lush off the street with a jug of MD 20/20 to do their best celebrity impersonation. Such would be a huge asset to movie licenses like Bond, SW, EA's LotR games, etc..

And cameos, as you pointed out, are fine - when the appearance fits the context of the game. Michael Jackson's appearance in SC5 fits this bill pretty well: the guy is famous for song and dance. And child molesting.

Images unwanted

Erin: Diva of the Living Dead, That picture of "Space Michael" makes me shudder. Not because he's in Space Channel 5 nor because his ethnicity is absolutely impossible to determine at this point, but because it reminds me of Moonwalker. The humorous irony of a game where Michael Jackson saves little children from being hurt by "bad men" is almost too much for me to handle. "Help me, Michael!" Indeed. Speaking of people who look like they're made of non-recyclable materials, has anyone been keeping track of the seventh sign of the Apocalypse, sometimes referred to as the Britney Spears game? I think it's supposed to be a rhythm game of some sort. [shudder] As for celebrity guest appearances in general, I suppose they're fine as long as they make logical sense. Space Michael makes sense: he's famous for being a good dancer and doesn't look out of place with the rest of the aliens in that game. However, I can't think of a single worthwhile game that starred or revolved around a real-life celebrity/celebrities. Griffin, who's apparently in a foul mood.

No, my friend. The humorous irony of Moonwalker was that it was not, in fact, that bad a game.

As far as Britney Spears... to the very best of my knowledge the "game" was to be an "interactive video DVD" utilizing "FirstPerson technology," and was intended for a multi-platform release. Last I heard, it was called Experience Britney and more or less allowed the "player" to marvel at the pop singer in concert from any vantage point in a 360 degree landscape, forcing me to wonder if developer Enroute was going to include support for the iSmell™ Fetid Cabbage Launcher. You'll have to excuse my losing track of the project after that - I may be new to the GIA but nevertheless I've long since been united with them in their studious avoidance of anything pertaining to this game.

Commanding respect

To be fair to Square, "Cait Sith" is a Celtic demi-god who's SUPPOSED to be a cat (although, obviously, the FF7 was merely inspired by him), and moombas-as-moogles wouldn't have worked within the context of the Shumi Tribe. Maybe there's something Square plans to do with the Taru Taru that we'd also consider un-mooglish. Still, the series as a whole has suffered from a distinct lack of moogle-ness; hopefully FFXI still has respectable levels of moogle-osity. As for the main question: It could definitely work. Wing Commander 3 and 4 (spacefighter simulation on the PC) already tried it by hiring people like Mark Hamill, John Rhys-Davies, and Malcolm McDowell for, of all things, movie cut-scenes throughout the game. Sound familiar? To people who hate the concept of cinematic RPGs, this could be the last straw, but for those who don't mind them, just picture it. Characters with the full acting range of a professional actor (not necessarily filmed, maybe a detailed CG likeness with the actor's expressions well-captured). It could make for some of the most dramatic game scenes out there, and it would certainly help push games closer to being recognized as an respectable art form. On the other hand, the day N'Sync makes a cameo appearance in an RPG is the day I sell my consoles and revive my lost love of board games. - ChocoMog ZERO

WCs III and IV actually did make it to the PSX in a slightly stripped-down form, giving me the opportunity in my naiveté to experience some of the console's earliest "spacefighter simulation."

If indeed that's what you wanna call it. Wing Commanders III and IV were entirely too heavy on the FMV and light on the gameplay to be exemplary titles, but I suppose that's another discussion entirely.

The FMV, I'll admit, was good, especially for the time, and featured decent performances from aging badass McDowell, soon-to-be-Slider Rhys-Davies, and a matured Hamill who'd blissfully outgrown Luke's put-upon whinings. Why they nixed nearly the entire cast in favor of the bunch they went with in the movie adaptation I'll never know, because the original bunch made a game with about as deep a dogfighting experience as that offered in Sewer Shark ... well .. enjoyable.

WCs III and IV, then, stand as a rare argument in favor of celebrities in gaming ... if you wanna call Mark Hamill, John Rhys-Davies, and Malcolm McDowell celebrities, that is.

(Thanks, BTW, for filling the educational/informational quota for me this week. Saves me having to print someone else's studiously-crafted dissertation on Celtic mythology as it relates to Z:OoT or some other equally smartass missive.)

Why don't we all put out heads together and the bullet can go down the line...?

Erin, Alright, I've had enough. Firstoff, I hear N-Sync is slated to amke a cameo appearance in Episode 2. Getting blown up, true, but they've spread their pop ick all over it, anyhow. The next day, I find out that Trent Reznor is producing the new Limp Bizkit album. (Sorry, Trent... that and Tomb Raider have made me lose ALL respect for you. Go wear a backwards red cap, ya pud.) But videogames... Sure, it's been done before (Moonwalker, Spice Girls, Britany spears, la la la). It was tolerable, because it was a fluke... but with the increasing rate at which people's sacred passtimes are being tarnished (as above), I'd like to get a message out while I still can: KEEP YOUR FILTHY POP GERMS OFF OF MY MEDIA. Keep your songs written by pedophile 40-year-old out of my games. Keep your choreography, and use it on your key demographic- the ignorant MTV youth wondering what the hell the M stands for. Put a Playstation controller in Carson Daly's hands and watch in amusement as he tries to figure out which button to push to get the bananna. The ESRB needs to come up with a classification for the disgusting pop ick and slap it on the back of games so I know which ones to steal and burn in the street. I swear, nothing is sacred anymore. Thank you. -Pisces, who'd line the backstreet boys up sideways so he wouldn't waste ammunition.

I have little to say to this letter, beyond that I'm surprised I didn't get more like it: this kind of all-inclusive hatred for pop culture pretty much characterizes DA, its moderators, and its readership.

Yes, Virginia

Somehow I don't see it happening that often. But if it does become more frequent I'm just glad Leonardo DeCaprio is dead. ...He is dead isn't he? ~Ian P.

...

I just haven't the heart.

Closing Comments:

Okay, so. We've done "what book would you like to see made into a game?" We've done "what movie would you like to see made into a game?" And now, we've done "What actor would you absolutely never under any circumstances like to see in, around, or anywhere near a a game?"

Douglas Adams decided he wanted to make games and co-founded the Digital Village, spawning Starship Titanic before tragically biting the big one. Now, this being a PC title aside, it got me to wondering... what author, screenwriter or director would you like to see writing/developing/conceptualizing specifically for the home console? What master storyteller, in your opinion, could make the best use of the video game medium?

Be sure to let me know - so I can be sure to let you know how wrong you are.

-Erin Mehlos