Spoilerfest - December 13th, 20001 - Arpad Korossy
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed within this column are those of the participants and the moderator, and do not neccessarily reflect those of the GIA. There is coarse language and potentially offensive material afoot. I wish sleep came in an edible, canned form. Don't say we didn't warn you.
Well, as you can probably tell by how late this update is going up, I didn't exactly have as much time as I had hoped to work on today's column, but better late than never I suppose.
There's still quite a bit of MGS2 discussion coming in, but honestly most of it has been covered by now so unless you can find something immensely profound to say, I think this'll probably be the last day for the topic, unless Erin wants to talk about it as well. Lot of interesting letters on topic today, although I realized as I was reading them that I haven't played about half the games involving these momentous plot twists, so I got to spoil about half a dozen games for myself. I suppose it goes with the territory though. I've been sure to carefully label all spoilers in today's column by game, however, including the remaining Metal Gear Solid 2 letters so you don't have to suffer the same fate.
Anyhow, enough about me, let's read some letters.
| Someone actually agrees with me *Metal Gear Solid 2 Spoilers* |
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I happen to agree with you. I loved MGS2 and found
that by playing Raiden I only came to appreciate Snake
even more. There was something almost magical to watch
him in action rather than controlling him through the
action.
Anyway, I was just writing to give a theory I came up
with as to why the president grabs Raiden as he does.
I think that he thought Raiden was Olga. I'm sure he
knew the Patriots were using her to do their work,
expected her to kill him. He most have had a brief
description of her: white hair, blue eyes. Same as
Raiden. So that is why I thought he did what he did.
I'm glad you're sticking up for the game, though. It's
taken a lot of fire because it was a different twist
to the series. It had it's ups and downs but I still
found it to be an excellent game.
Take Care,
Jennifer
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You and another person both mentioned Olga as being the person the president was expecting, and I must say you're almost undoubtedly correct. I'm kicking myself as we speak for not picking up on that.
If you solved that question though, try this one: why does the president say that everything is starting to make sense when Raiden identifies himself as a FOX-HOUND? The president would obviously know that FOX-HOUND hadn't existed since the Shadow Moses incident, so it would seem that he knows the true nature of Raiden's mission. Was he actually aware of the whole S3 project and simply neglected to tell you, or is there something else at work here?
| I'm not listening! |
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Am I the only one that's noticed that Raiden is Jack, and Rose is... well,
Rose? As in: "I'm king of the world!" Jack, and "I'll never let go," Rose?
Raiden even sounds like Leonardo DiCaprio.
That goes beyond tribute.
-Cal Adams
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A few other people have mentioned that as well, but frankly I refuse to even acknowledge the possibility. That a series as awesome as Metal Gear would give a nod to a movie as innately evil as Titanic would surely cause some sort of disturbance in the space-time continuum and destroy reality as we know it. Seeing as this hasn't happened yet I think the obvious conclusion to draw is that the names were pure coincidence.
| More about Meryl *Metal Gear Solid 2 Spoilers* |
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Hey there,
I just finished reading your column, and saw the various mentions of Meryl
in regards to MGS2. Aside from the now-burning desire to sit down and read
that 300-page monster of a book, I thought I'd mention that there is another
hint about Meryl late in the game. When you first get the HF Blade, you can
actually knock Snake out to get his dog tags (though I'm sure many know this
by now). But I found out you get different tags depending on your
difficulty. On Normal, I got, as expected, 'Solid Snake', though playing on
Easy, he dropped Meryl's tags. So maybe he had them with him for luck, while
she was at home baking apple pie...or something. In any case, if it's in the
book dealie, I guess it's obvious she's alive... but I think this is still
interesting in any case, if anyone didn't know.
~Chronologist
--------------------
chronologist@rpgfan.com
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http://synbios.net/chrono/cc/
http://synbios.net/chrono/cd/
http://www.rpgfan.com/
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As it turns out, I was greatly mistaken in my statement that Meryl is not mentioned in MGS2 aside from the past missions history. In addition to the Snake's indirect reference if you call Otacon while looking at Olga's body, Snake does indeed possess Meryl's dogtag on the easy difficulty. Something which, I might add, he would be unlikely to do if they had had some sort of falling out. Of course, I'm a complete softie and a sucker for most love stories, so I tend to believe any theory that leaves Snake and Meryl together after MGS. Also, at least one person mentioned that Snake can distinctly be heard to mutter Meryl's name if you call him enough times on the codec while he's sleeping. Although it doesn't come up on the subtitles, it's most definitely there.
As a quick note, some people also mentioned that Meryl supposedly makes in appearance in another of Kojima's works, Policenauts. Having not played Policenauts myself, I consulted with my fellow agents and was told that although there is a character named Meryl in Policenauts, she's not the same person as the Meryl from Metal Gear. Although the similarities are rather startling, the damning piece of evidence is that Policenauts is set in 2042, which would place Meryl's birthday around 2018. By this reckoning Meryl wouldn't have even been born at the time of Sons of Liberty. However, given Kojima's love for in-jokes and not so subtle references to his past games, it's almost certain that he was thinking of the Policenauts character when naming her.
| Dead Presidents *Metal Gear Solid 2 Spoilers* |
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One little pointer you forgot to mention about Solidus Snake, that
many people seem to just "gloss over".
He was the freaking president of the United States. His presidential
influence was probably about the only reason that suit of armor
existed.
Sure, the dead presidents (in MGS2) sure like to talk about being
used, but its obvious they didn't just stand around and smile for
photos.
And trying not to sound too offensive, what other game in history can
have a claim to fame like "results in death of fictional current and
former US presidents"?
KZ
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Quite true. We can only hope that one day "results in death of fictional current and former US presidents" is cited as often on the back of video game boxes as was "RPG elements" a few years ago.
Honestly though, I found the events of the first two hours of the game far more jarring than the fact that they kill off two presidents. You barely even get anywhere, and already the game has killed off the Commandant of the Marine Corps, a full company of Marines, and an entire SEAL team. I was not a happy camper, to say the least.
| I like my enemies nice and stupid |
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I’m tired of AI getting better and more realistic. What happened to the days of figuring out a boss’s pattern and running with it? Making games HARDER does not mean that they are BETTER.
And treasure, I want more treasure.
- C
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This is why real men refuse to play anything on any difficulty level above Very Easy.
| The most interactive ending ever *Lunar 2 and Thousand Arms spoilers* |
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Yo.
Personally, I found that the most surprising plot twist of all time was in Lunar 2, that fake ending right before the epilogue. I just kept thinking to myself, "Yawn, she's gonna stay in the end," or that Hiro would jump on her at the last second. Instead, I get a treat that Lucia is actually going alone (something that I would never expect), and leaves Hiro there with her pendant. Then, the whole epilogue to make it there (Which, also not expecting to see after the ending). I thought that it made it that more effective, that you had to let it sink in about Lucia's disappearance, and then go get her. I still think that it's one of the more emotionally bending moments in gaming, but after the first time, the shock value wears off a little bit since you know the outcome.
That, and in Thousand Arms when little whiny/passive/annoying/useless Nelsha gets her dress kit back, turns into a hentai reject, and engages in a catfight with the equally disturbing Ratchet. I didn't think that it was possible to have two characters on opposing sides, and for them to have more flaws each than all other characters put together. Plus, the bleeped dialogue between them gave even more depth to the extent of Nelsha's change. That is the one time in gaming that I laughed louder than when Cloud gets picked as the Don's date in FFVII. That single scene in Thousand Arms just bends Nelsha's character so much that it's nigh impossible to look at her the same way again, and makes me want to actually choose her as a character to play with.
-Sir Blaze, who likes his female characters interesting and unique, not just set dressing RINOA!
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I have yet to get very far in Thousand Arms, so I really can't address that, but I completely agree about Lunar 2. While I was expecting some sort of playable epilogue after having beaten Lunar: SSSC, the scope of Lunar 2's epilogue was quite shocking to say the least. Of course, it was really just your standard fanfic material where the heroes gather once again to go on a new quest and right some wrong, but I figure if you can't enjoy a guilty pleasure now and again you're not really living.
| Curse my soft and squishy heart! *Phantasy Star Spoilers* |
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In my RPGing youth, Phantasy Star 4 was only my 3rd RPG. I played that game and love it, and it also contained the greatest plot twist. The twist seems almost idiotically simple now, but this was long ago. The twist was *spoiler* Alys dying *spoiler*. Keep in mind I was young, and not used to main characters dying in video games. I had yet to play Phantasy Star 2 (my 2 rpg's before PS4 were PS3 and Final Fantasy 1), so I had never seen death in an RPG or really in any game. Death was a concept I had yet to associate with gaming, so the concept being inserted into this game was a real surprise. As I had said, this kind of plot "twist" is quite common now, and it isn't actually a twist anymore. Its more of a plot continuation now because its easily foreseeable and is widely accepted. Second place is a tie between the last 20 hours of Xenogears (so many plot twists...) and that special event in FF6j/FF3 (which is about 2/3rds in the game). Thats all I have to say. Pop quiz: Who is looking forward to Xenosaga?
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Ah... Phantasy Star. Though it wasn't the first plot twist to come to my mind, Alys' death really was quite affecting, for me at least. I actually had her death spoiled for me shortly before I got to that point in the game, and I was so distraught that I couldn't bring myself to play any furher. I don't think I'll ever be able to play Phantasy Star II either, knowing ahead of time that Nei is going to die a rather violent death, it's all much too depressing..
| You could always ask the President to check, just to make sure |
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I think the most bizzare plot twist is knowing that Kuja is a male since I
still think that they're lying. Also I think the Barret date is just really
odd too.
Imperial Mog
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Indeed.
| Meanwhile... *Metal Gear Solid 2 Spoilers* |
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Hey there Apple Costs Me,
"Unfortunately, the sword, as well as Raiden's presence, was thoroughly spoiled for me by the manual well before I got to that point, which was more than a little annoying."
Wow, I didn't think anyone actually read the manuals anymore. You poor guy. Actually, I briefly flipped through it, and I saw Rose's bio, which mentioned she was Raiden's girlfriend, and I said "who the hell is Raiden," and then went on my way. I guess what Kojima should have done is listed Raiden with the support characters, but oh well. I think that even if I saw his blurb ahead of time I wouldn't have assumed he was the main playable character, I would have assumed his role was something like Snake's actually was, a non-playable character on a similar mission that you interact with and possibly coordinate with, but not the main player-character. I do agree though that it was great how Snake was still the main Character and an integral part of the game, but the way you view him and Otacon fleshed things out much more and I liked him much more than I did in the first game, cliched-voice and all. He seemed more human in this one, more sympathetic.
As for the topic at hand, this is going to sound REALLY stupid, but the most surprising plot move I've ever-experienced (keeping things in proportion to my age, mind you) was in Final Fantasy IV, when it first flashed to Golbez and Kain in the tower of Zot, and it said "Meanwhile." I know that sounds really stupid, but I was about 12, playing the game when it first came out (91?), and I'd never seen anything so cinematic in a game before, and it just blew my mind that it said meanwhile and flashed to the villain like that. I knew then that this game was going to be a real experience, and I wasn't disappointed.
A similar thing happened to me, but to a lesser effect, in FF Legend for Gameboy, in the beginning when you reach the king who has the armor (or was it the shield) and he's dead, and his Steward who killed him runs away and you chase him behind the throne through a secret passage, and catch up to him and fight him. This was technically the first cinematic experience I've ever had as an integral part of the gameplay, and I thought it was the coolest thing ever (but the FFIV thing mentioned above, which happened a year later, affected me even more).
Now that I think about it, I had played Ninja Gaiden I and II before, and technically those were at least more cinematic than FF Legend, and debatably as cinematic as FFIV, but the thing is that the cut scenes were more of a bonus. You could take them away and it would have functioned just as well as a simple action game like contra (although obviously it wouldn't have been as cool). But when I played these two Final Fantasies and the story was A PART of the gameplay, I was just floored. That's why I'll always remember these two games with so much more fondness than the original Final Fantasy.
...although I still have the fond memory of my insanely powerful level 40 black belt (with fast cast on him) taking out Chaos in two moves.
-Ted Copulate
P.S. Hey man, don't you know that it's standard Double Agent practice to remove an auto-signature at the bottom of an email, especially when it contains a guy's phone number? Come on man, you're worse than Stalin. Although if I few people check out my bands page, I won't complain (it's not on the web, but we do a Xenogears cover... nudge nudge).
Chris Alfano
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I remember seeing Final Fantasy IV for the first time at a friend's house, and his brother was just playing through that part when I got there, and I remember being extremely impressed. I find it somewhat ironic that despite the old school reputation Final Fantasy IV has built up for itself, the elements that seem to still stick out are in fact the cinematic ones.
And I sincerely apologize about the phone number thing; I've already removed it from the archived copy of yesterday's column. Still though, I think comparing me to a dictator responsible for the deaths of millions of his own countrymen is a tad on the harsh side.
| I am way too sleepy to think of a witty title *Front Mission 3 Spoilers* |
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Arpad,
An amazing but less-known plot twist would be Ravnui Embassy in Front Mission 3's Alisa Missions. The entire game is flipped upside-down and turned inside out at the embassy. (Tons of spoilers to follow.)
Up until this point, your party is running from authorities in Japan who are framing Kazuki (the main character) and Ryogo (his friend). You fight alongside anti-government rebels in the Philippines and against them in the Da Han Zhong (China). Fun, but nowhere near Square's typical level of plot... until you reach the embassy.
There, your party's guide reveals that he's been using you all along and abandons you. You discover that your adopted sister (Alisa) is a genetically engineered Imaginary Number. But most importantly, Lukav, also an Imaginary Number, shows himself to be your true enemy. He kills the Ravnui ambassador and DHZ chairman, leaders of the Imaginary Number Project, and announces his intention to build another MIDAS, a "clean" bomb which uses auric radiation to produce an explosion similar to an atomic bomb in power but without harmful radiation. He attempts to entice Alisa and her sister to help build MIDAS, but they refuse, and your group_s new mission becomes clear: to stop Lukav from taking over the world and destroying humanity at all costs.
The above is really just a short synopsis that does little justice to this amazing plot twist. Also, the music at Ravnui is the creepiest I've ever heard. What makes this turning point even more incredible is that while similar events occur in the parallel Emma missions, Ravnui Embassy is just another place you go in those missions, not the pivotal point for the entire game.
---
Alex Bender
Tieqi Body + Shangdi Arm + Kasel Leg = UberWanzer
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The Ravnui Embassy sequence was truly the highlight of Front Mission 3. There have been a handful of games whose storylines are as circuitous, few have packed quite so many plot revelations into one scene. Even on Emma's path, where not half as much occurred at the embassy, it was still quite a headfake.
| The greatest twist of them all *Super Mario Bros. Spoilers* |
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Without a doubt, the most surprising and heart-rending videogame plot twist
ever has to be in that classic of classics, Super Mario Brothers. You fight
your way through four levels of madness, struggling to save some Toadstool
strumpet you've never even seen before, only to hear the fateful words:
"Thank you Mario! But our princess is in another castle!"
I nearly blacked out with shock and rage at the time, and even now I feel a
rising hatred just thinking of the moment. Even worse, this plot twist
happened SIX more times before Mario finally saved the princess and attained
sweet redemption. Needless to say, I destroyed many a NES controller before
the game was done.
Speaking from a console RPG perspective, Final Fantasy 6 with its
destruction of the world by Kefka and Chrono Trigger with its death of the
main character (albeit a temporary one) were also notable.
-Ybhan D'Ari
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Not only does "our princess is in another castle" have the distinction of being probably the first plot twist ever in a video game, and the dubious honor of having become a part of the American vocaublary, you really have to say something for a game that feels it can get away with the exact same plot twist seven times in a row. Truly, a defining moment in the history of video game narratives.
Closing comments:
I truly have to apologize for today's column; I originally planned to print a few more letters but the need for sleep has overwhelmed me. Unfortunately it has also dulled my wits somewhat, such as they are, so I hope you'll forgive me if I didn't offer up the same level of sardonic wry humor and condensed wit that you're used to seeing in this column. Unfortunately you're stuck with me for one more day before we launch back in to teh regular DA rotation, but hopefully I will be better rested tomorrow and be able to compose a halfway coherent column.
As for tomorrow's topic, it's supposed to be a free topic Friday I suppose, but I want to give you a topic anyway. A number of people were not only disappointed in Metal Gear Solid 2, they were shocked that Konami, or even Kojima himself would manipulate gamers like this, and intentionally misrepresent their product, and all as part of their sinister bid for world domination. Or something like that. In any case, we gamers tend to imagine that we have a far more personal relationship with video game developers than we really do, and what we take as a personal insult is typically nothing of the sort. So, I want to hear from you what stupid things you've done in the name of devotion to a certain company or righteous hatred of another. Did you refuse to play Sega Genesis games at your friend's house because it would be betraying Nintendo? Did you see The Spirits Within half a dozen times to boost ticket sales because you didn't want Sakaguchi's feelings to be hurt by a poor box office showing? Or maybe you just sent gushy over emotional fanmail to Howard Lincoln. Let me know.
- Arpad Korossy, wishing he was home.
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