Double Agent
Resolution refutation - July 18, 2001 - Chris Jones

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed within this column are those of the participants and the moderator, and do not necessarily reflect those of the GIA. There is coarse language and potentially offensive material afoot. Future not available in Africa, India, or Central/South America. Don't say we didn't warn you.

Good stuff about FFX today; other than the 6 months it's gonna take for Square to get it over here, I'm quite pleased with what I've seen and heard so far.

Onward.

Blood in the water
I liked Chrono Trigger, man, but it is nearly an insult of immeasurable proportions to even mention both CT and FF4 in the same sentence...

FF4 is the definitive Final Fantasy...It has the most endearing characters, and memorable moments in all of gaming. I have never heard it said by anybody else, but I also think the music in the game surpasses even that of FF6 (granted, there were less tunes, but they were all grandiose).

There is not enough I could say about how perfect of a game FF4 is (some of the dialogue was a bit cheesy, and the quest was just a touch on the short side--but these complaints are almost too minor to even mention). Cecil and Kain are definitely two of my favorite characters in the series, and who can forget Golbez.

It set the standard for all RPGs that followed it to this day, and it is a standard that has rarely been met, if at all...

I have not yet played the "Chronicles" edition, but I look forward to it...I would have loved to have seen it get a full-on Mario All-Stars type of upgrade, as it is the most deserving in the series to receive such, but I at least hope the opening/closing CG offers something worthwhile...

Chrono Trigger had some neat art and visual effects, and a few cool new concepts, but overall, the characters were fairly one-dimensional and forgettable, and the music was mostly bland...

Paul G.

In this corner we have a total FF2 fanatic, someone who loves the game even more than I myself do, although since he hasn't yet played the FFC edition one can surmise that his view of the game's been tinted by nostalgia.

This being mostly an opinion column, there's not much more to say here, except that if FF2's characters in any way escape being stereotypes, it's only because they came out when the ideas of "troubled knight" and "saintly healer" hadn't yet firmly established themselves in gaming. FF's characters might have a bit more heft to them, but change your perspective a bit and you can call them hidebound, while CT's are lean and streamlined. But better to let someone else make that argument:

Pure gaming brilliance: spikey hair sold separately
Chrono Trigger is pure gaming brillance.At it's core is a very simple and standard battle system, but the setting combined with it's great story, make it a classic.The characters are all loveable and the replay value is unparrelled. The game is also one of the best looking 2D games ever and the time travel aspect was executed perfectly.

Final Fantasy 2, on the other hand doesn't sit right with me(and yes, I do have the original SNES copy).The characters (save Kain) are just your average mages and knights and the story is the same tale of good vs. evil that's been told for the past 2000 years (or longer). CT managed to draw me in with it's pretty graphics, interesting and some what original story, and it's charm due to a diverse set of charcters.Plus CT has the whole Sci fi and fantasy setting going on at the same time, which please just about evry rpg player.Why play this when you can play Final Fantasy 3?

In the end, CT manages to best FF2 on just about all counts.Not that I dislike FF2, but there are so many better games out there, it really just can't compare to gems like Luifa 2, Final Fantasy 3, or Chrono Trigger.

Some people call me someone.

Two things about this letter: it always annoys me somewhat when people say CT's time travel was done the way it should be. You've got a time machine, but you can apparently only travel in increments of several hundred years? And the only way you can think of to stop Lavos is to go kick his ass yourself? If he's defeatable in almost every era (at least, Chrono and co. seem to have no problems kicking his ass) why not go to 1950 or so, warn people about it, and on the Day of Lavos you'll have a precisely targeted nuke waiting for the big L?

Ok, so I'm more of a hard sf person at heart. Still, another thing I can't understand is people's obsession with pigeonholing various games as "fantasy" or "sci-fi". FFI had the Desert Tower and the Warmech, FFII had the Tower of Bab-Il and countless other hi-tech instillations... so why are they considered pure fantasy, whereas FF6 (where the tech is steampunk, at best) and Chrono Trigger are hybrids?

End of ranting.

More back...
Chris,

Crono Trigger is a great title, but the new FF4 translation has grabbed me from day one. It is so much better than the chop job done to FF2, and makes FF4 arguably the best title in the Cronicals. I love to see the characters react to certian situations and Golbez comes off as a much deadlier villian.(although he's still no Kefka) I've also gotten my head handed to me by some monsters I considered wimps, as they seem to hit harder and attack faster. Twin didn't cast as fast as I was used to it doing, so it crimped my style abit. :) It's FF4 how it was intended to be and I love it.

Shadowcat
(who's probably gonna get clobered by Barahmut again)

I've never much cared about the fixed class/variable class argument, but in a way I think giving the characters set professions works in a big way for IV. Rosa's a healer and acts like it, Rydia's whole life is bound up in one form of magic or another, and in the beginning, Cecil and Kain are soldiers, end of story. In comparison, what exactly is Chrono, beside this guy with a sword? Lucca? Marle? Frog, at least, is a knight, but what experiences lead Magus to center on a scythe as a weapon? Sure, it sounds cool, but those things are pretty damn heavy and awkward for anything but cutting wheat...

...er, I'm nitpicking again, aren't I?

...and forth
Well, I know that FFIV is THE RPG to many, but I find it horribly overrated (outside of the battle system still in use today). The story is maudlin and contrived enough to make daytime soaps seem modest (it was actually a shock when Tellah stayed dead), the locales of the world are differentiated by the most marginal of gimmicks (Kaipo's like Baron, but in the desert! Troia's like Baron, but with women!), and even in '91 the aesthetics weren't worth the praise (Actraiser and Super Ghouls & Ghosts alone trounce FFIV visually, and I don't think Nobuo became a triple-A composer until FF6). I'm not saying the game was worthless, but it's more a case of a 'laying the foundation' classic than being a 'timeless' classic.

Ironically enough, Chrono Trigger's braindead battle system is its sole crutch. Most, if not all, of the game's most useful moves could clear the screen of enemies for less than 5 MP. But as a sort of compliment to FFIV, exploring the world and all its details was so fun the weak battles didn't matter.

If FFIV is to a Shakespearean play as CT is to a light-hearted sci-fi novel, fine. I know which one if more likely to read by choice.

SonicPanda

Good points, all of them. I think there was a bit more variation in environment than you admit - if nothing else, I remember Troia fondly because of the great background music and the chance to swim around with the frogs. Also, FFIV was a massive RPG, while Actraiser was a fairly short sidescroller. Which do you think was easier to make look pretty?

In comparison, I'm probably just being unfair to Chrono Trigger. A lot of people played it when they were in high school or junior high and had lots of time to explore every tiny detail of the game; I played it in college, when I had enough time to play it and enjoy it, but not obsess over it like I did with FFI and IV.

Mmm, seafood
Did I lose my mind(again) or in the original SNES version didn't the Great Whale actually look like a whale and not a robotic shrimp with a carrying handle on top?

achilleszero

Yeah, but if you squinted a bit you could kinda, sorta imagine it looked like a whale with its tail in the air. Of course, it still looks the same in the FFC version, near as I can tell.

Long letter o' the day
Chris -

I have a great deal of respect for several movie critics. Indeed, their job is very cool: watch movies and tell people what to think about them. Some critics have achieved national recognition (e.g. Roger Ebert) and some reach the few college students that bother to pick up the school newspaper. Whatever their level of influence and respect, Elvis Mitchell of the New York Times included, there are still instances when they don't have a clue. Elvis Mitchell's NPR review of "Final Fantasy" (and indeed most of the critical response) is one of those times.

There is a key flaw in almost all published critical reviews of this movie: that it's based on a video game. Now I may be missing something, but IT'S NOT. The Sakaguchi/Square story style is there, there are a few references to the games, and there is, of course, the title, but ultimately, this is a completely standalone and unrelated project. "Tomb Raider" is very close to the game: Lara Croft goes treasure hunting. "Mortal Kombat" was a tournament of mortal combat. Two plumbers rescued the princess in "Super Mario Brothers". All these games are video game movies. Now, blame it on Square for trying to capitalize on their existing franchise and confusing the critics and non-game-playing viewers, but that's actually where the crux of my argument is: I expect my reviewers to do some research. When Mel Gibson's "The Patriot" came out last summer, it was lambasted for being "revisionist history" in regard to slaves, and inaccurate on a number of other Revolutionary War aspects. And there were facts to back those critiques up. The reviewers may not have had to research hard, but they did have the evidence supporting their arguments.

When it comes to video games, however, reviewers never do their research. The fact that Mr. Mitchell starts his commentary talking in a silly robotic voice is immediately indicative that he has no idea what a Final Fantasy game is like. His critique of video game plots as being unsubstantial in world terms is true, but to say there isn't enough plot to make a movie out of is just wrong. His critique of the plot of the movie, standalone, is fine: I don't agree but that is his job, to give his opinion. This good grace doesn't last however, as he shows his true ignorance once again by referring to "going to the next level" (stage, not experience points). His entire spiel about video games and their interactivity doesn't work because IT'S NOT a video game movie.

I'm giving Ebert double kudos for ending his video game commentary at "named after a famous series of video games". Most critics fell into the laziness trap on this movie by writing it off as the next Street Fighter. They didn't bother to figure out what the movie was really about, and instead resorted to being cute and "clever" in their commentary about the world of video games. And for that, I'm disappointed.

- MeekayD

No, reviewers don't do the proper amount of research for games. This is news to you? They never have, and most likely, never will. Tycho of Penny Arcade pointed out today that even in the relatively important area of free speech regarding FPS games, the media likely won't bother to make the fine technical distinctions that are important to us as gamers; so why should movie critics, when reviewing something than even many fans say is just another piece of summer fluff?

Besides, I'd get more upset about it, except that many of Square's own press releases fail to make the distinction. On the contrary, they seem more than happy to link the film with the game series as much as possible, to an extent where, if I'd never seen FF before, I'm not sure I could tell the difference between the two either.

But again, I think we've got the cart before the horse. The point of the movie should have been that it was good enough to get people interested in the games by itself, instead of requiring them to know about the series first hand to get all the nuances. The thing is, Mr. Mitchell wasn't mocking the games with the robot voice, he was mocking Aki's acting. Now, I personally think he was being unfair with a lot of his comparisons, but it shouldn't have been an issue if the movie really had lived up to all the hype - if it had been good enough for him to admit that games and CG really had arrived as a serious entertainment medium. It's not a fair or reasonable standard that the film was held to, but sometimes you've got to completely surpass what's expected of you to be noticed at all.

Oops, spoke too soon
Hmmm, this is a tough one... Both games are classic Square titles, and both have rabid fanbases behind them. Between Final Fantasy IV and Chrono Trigger, however, I'd have to go with Chrono Trigger. I'll try to break this down into major categories so there's some sort of structure to this.

Graphics:
Well, this one isn't really fair, is it? One might be able to make an argument about the graphics of FF6 versus Chrono Trigger (well not really, Chrono Trigger still wins), but FFIV just came out too early to compete with Chrono Trigger graphics wise. The character sprites are larger and animated better, the backgrounds are jaw-dropping and look hand-painted, and say what you want about Toriyama using one design for all his characters, but they are still very appealing. FFIV had some beautiful scenery too but it was few and far between compared Chrono Trigger's.

Music:
Technical quality aside, I'd have to say Mitsuda has a slight lead over Uematsu in this category. While Chrono Trigger may not have such an instantly recognizable theme as the "Final Fantasy Prelude", Mitsuda creates some brilliant melodies, especially the beautiful ending theme. Mitsuda knows how to create very minimalistic tracks, such as a simple flute playing against the background of running water, jazzy tracks like the Geno Dome music, etc. This is not to say that Uematsu can't do this, it's just that I feel Mitsuda does it better. This, however, is a highly subjective category, so I'll have to take the easy way out and say that it is only my preference that leads me to believe that Chrono Trigger has better music.

Story:
Good luck with anybody competently arguing for a game in this category, including me. Both games have epic storylines, but in the long run, I'd have to say Chrono Trigger's "beat the alien to save the world" premise beats FFIV's "collect the crystals to save the world" premise. The thing that strikes me most about Chrono Trigger is that the characters are not in immediate danger; They are forced only by their consciences to deal with such a dangerous task. They could have easily gone home and not worried about a planetary crisis a thousand years after they would have died. Chrono Trigger, I believe, also has more fleshed out characters. No doubt Cecil and Rydia are developed well enough for us to be able to actually sympathize with their problems, but I don't think they're in the same league with Magus's dark and mysterious past, or the fact that Chrono's a mute (ok, that's not much of a tragic problem). Many of the story elements in Chrono Trigger are rather subtle compared to FFIV. Racism and segregation are frequently explored (Mystics vs. Humans, Reptites vs. Humans, Enlightened Ones vs. Earthbound Ones) as well as environmental issues (Fiona's plans for the forest), among others. Don't get me wrong, Cecil's journey of redemption from his past is quite well done. I just prefer the engrossing experience of the world that Chrono Trigger offers.

I wish I could write a conclusion, but this is already too long, so I'll just say that Chrono Trigger is the better of the two games for the reasons I've outlined above. Then again, I'm so biased I believe that Chrono Trigger is better than FF6 as well. Now THERE'S a showdown for ya.

- Panadero, Chrono Guru at large

One last rant, if you please: Magus. What is it with people and this guy? He's got a cape, and a scythe, gloves and pointy teeth and ears. Big freakin' deal. He's irritating when he's a kid (and that goes double for his cat), and he's even more irritating when he's tall, dark and mysterious; all attitude and no substance.

Ok, maybe he's not that bad, but I just never got what the attraction was - brooding loners with tragic pasts are a dime a dozen in RPGs, so what is it about this guy that makes him so special?

Ragnarok is good for the soul
You want people to fight over FF4 and Chrono Trigger? Dear God, we'll all get killed in the crossfire. And with all your outspokenness against "old skool vs. newbies" and system wars I thought you didn't like that kind of thing. Shame on you, Mr Jones.

Christoph, screaming, "Chrono Trigger rules all!" and running away

Hey, this column would be nowhere without argument and disagreement - what I've got a problem isn't people fighting over gaming issues, it's people fighting over the same gaming issues, over and over again, without getting anywhere in the meantime. Besides, this is something of a zero-sum game; with FFC, it's not like you can decide to buy one and not the other. Play 'em both, enjoy 'em both, make your own decision.

Isn't it nice to have such trivial problems?
Chris,

I've stumbled upon a problem. Yeah, it involves the FF movie. A lot of people who see this movie (surprisingly, more people than I thought) say "Well, I don't know anything about the game" (Indicating they know it's a game name, but don't know it's a series) and ask me, as a well-known gamer (to them anyway, not to the world)

"So what's Final Fantasy like?"

Now, how am I supposed to compress an entire series into a blurb their short attention span can handle? (Short attention span being "They aren't as interested in FF as you are, make it concise.")

How would you describe the Final Fantasy series - or your favorite game in the series - to a nongamer? Plot as well as gameplay mechanics and the like are all fair game.

=====
Peter

Good question.

Closing Comments:

You have your topic, last in our week of Final Fantasy fanaticism. Get to it, and see you tomorrow.

-Chris Jones, always thought Rosa was prettier than Marle, anyway

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