Lost in the translation -
March 24, 2001 - Ed McGlothlin
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed
within this column are those of the participants and the
moderator, and do not necessarily reflect those of the
GIA. There is coarse language and potentially offensive
material afoot.
I hope Madonna keeps shooting videos with lots of gunplay, that way whatever happened to Bruce Lee's kid might happen to her too.
Don't say we didn't warn you.
It's good to be back for a weekend stint as Double Agent, especially with such a lively topic to work with. And since yesterday was my birthday, what better present could I ask for than some quality time with our best readers?
I hope everyone enjoyed Chris's one year anniversary last week, as he's done a fantastic job with what is a very, very difficult task.
But enough intra-site backslapping, let's have ourselves a good ol' fashioned bitchfest!
Eternal Bitchment |
Hey Ed,
I can't tell you how mad I'am at Atlus right now! Persona 2: Eternal
Punishment was such an awsome game and it just boggles my mind thinking about
how they are probobly not gonna release Persona 2: Innocent Sin in the U.S. I
know that Innocent Sin's fate rest's in Eternal Punishment's final sales ,but
don't the fans count for anything? There are so many people like me who love
the Persona series. There are people who have petitioned for its release and
others who have e-mailed Atlus directly, so they know how many fans are out
there but still no word.
I really just have no idea what they're thinking.
A disgruntled gamer
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They're probably thinking "hey, let's stay in business!"
I hate to say this, but you should be happy we even got Eternal Punishment. Yes, they're innovative and unique games, but you can't go to the bank and deposit innovation and uniqueness. Atlus may “know how many fans are out there,” but when they say future decisions will be based off sales, they judge by the more important number – how many customers are out there.
The business end of any creative enterprise is always an unwelcome intrusion, but unless you're an 800-pound industry gorilla, you can't just shove a game down the market's throat without the name brands and the mainstream recognition they bring. Even then, it's difficult. Just ask Nintendo why Perfect Dark sold less than a third of what GoldenEye did in the U.S.
We at the GIA greatly appreciate every chance a company like Atlus takes on a game like Persona, and strongly encourage them to take more. But if they take too many financial chances, there won't be an Atlus around to localize anything.
Radiant Silverbitch |
Ed,
There is no need for any thought to be put forth to the topic:
The failure to bring Radiant Silvergun outside of Japan will always be the
greatest mistake in videogame history. Period.
-IntrepidZero (well that was easy enough)
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I've never played Radiant Silvergun. Hell, I've never owned a Sega system, much less cared about games that didn't come out in the states for one. But I do know that RS has a good reputation, if only due to the merciless sermonizing its fans do.
In fact, it's the kind of merciless sermonizing that usually creates a backlash. *cough*
(CUT TO BACKLASH, CAMERA 2) |
This is a better topic than recent.
Normally, I'd reply to a question like this in naming a game
I actually like, such as, say, Sakura Taisen 1~3, Beatmania
II DX 3rd Style, Xí Jumbo, Dragon Quest VI (and probably VII,
just watch), Dodonpachi, Black/Matrix, etc.... but to be truthful
there's one game that I wish was out in America, properly.
Radiant Silvergun.
For if RS was actually in this country, and people were able
to play it on their own free will, maybe people would stop worshipping
the mediocrity (at best) that RS is. I seriously think that
if it wasn't for the fact that Treasure made the game, that
it's on the Saturn, and that it's only in Japan, and that in
all the reviews of shooters made afterwards, how the reviewers
insist on referring to RS as this god-send of a game which nobody
can say for themselves since it's only on the SS in Japan, I
think people would stop caring. The game is easily among one
of the most overhyped objects in videogame history, right up
there with the PS2 (which I'm not unfond of but I can see why
everyone else is), MGS2 (probably), etc etc. I have been reduced
to owning RS since people insist that I must own the game to
talk bad about it (What?! You don't like Radiant Silvergun?!
No person who _OWNS_ the game would say that!!) So yes. I own
the game. And I can't stand it.
I would put shooters such as Cotton 2 and Sokyogurentai over
Radiant Silvergun, which should be interpreted as an insult.
It is. RS isn't 100% worthless but I guess I get to be the one
to go around the 'net and say Radiant Silvergun sucks. So yeah,
sure. RS sucks. A lot. I just think that if everyone got to
play the game it wouldn't be as pointlessly worshipped as it is now.
Oh and by the way, Squareheads, you aren't missing anything
without Tobal 2, either. |
Hold on while I give any Radiant Silvergun fans reading the column a chance to stop dry heaving.
I usually defer to people who know magnitudes more about something than me, especially if they make obscure references designed for instant credibility (Sokyogurawhat?). But you seem quite suspicious in your zeal to condemn people for their zealousness.
Let's stipulate for a second that you're right, and RS is a giant steaming turd unjustly worshipped as a great game. So what? The game lacked a powerful enough constituency to be localized, so I doubt that many people actually liked it, just that those who do are enthusiastic. Another problem is that many of those fans probably know as much about obscure shooters as anyone, including you.
I get a fair amount of shit among GIA staffers for lacking an iota of interest in Metal Gear Solid 2, but that doesn't mean I try to dampen their interest, just tell them why I'm not interested myself. You'll save yourself some headache if you just lay out specific factual reasons for your opinion – I thought the first game was melodramatic, I don't like mullets, whatever – instead of acting like a lone prophet wandering the desert trying to convert the infidels.
Besides, if the game inspires opinions this passionate, there must be something noteworthy about it. If I were you, I'd just blame GameFan for everything and move on with my life.
Dimming Force |
The Guy Who's Filling in for The Weekend Guy -
In my opinion, the most horrific travesty in the history of gaming (well, not really, but it sounds better that way) is Sega's failure to translate Shining Force III: Scenarios 2 and 3. Not only did they dangle 60+ hours of strategy/rpg (which has never been even close to common anyway) in front of our noses, but they did give us Scenario 1, which was never designed as anything other than a prelude to the other two games, and made no effort to give closure to even its small part of the overall SFIII story. I assure you that, no matter much they loved Sega, every person who beat that game had an immediate, overpowering urge to strangle Bernie Stolar.
Shale, who's now praying for a PS rerelease.
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Well done. Those were specific, concrete reasons why the lack of localization was a bad thing.
It does seem odd to bring part one of a trilogy over and then ignore the latter two, but the Saturn was dying and those titles sound like a pricey project. Unfortunately, this may be one of those “be happy you got something” situations, especially considering Sega's circumstances at the time. Sega has been fairly fan-friendly in both the games they develop and bringing them out here, despite some serious oversights, most notably the entire Sakura Taisen series.
And I'm all for strangling Bernie Stolar on general principle, along with the guy who came up with Sonic Shuffle and a long, long list of others.
All Your Fire Emblem Are Belong To Japan |
Hey Ed,
There's a couple of games that I wish made it to North America. I have yet
to play a Fire Emblem game, I'm still waiting for Dragon Warriors 5 and 6
(and 7), Live A Live...heck, even Radical Dreamers would be nice! These
games, as well as many others, give people more reason to make ROMs of games
and translate them on their own, so the rest of us can play those games.
I've played the Seiken Densetsu 3 and Terranigma ROMs, and they were
translated very well. The games themselves are great, too!
I think game publishers are becoming more and more aware of the importance
of porting games over to North America. It should've been a no-brainer,
since there's lots of money to be made...anyone who makes a Tactics Maker
game (hello, Agetec!) will definitely get my money! Developers/Publishers
like Atlus are doing things right; releasing Hoshigami and Dodge Ball
Advance is a great way to win fans! I hope other publishers follow Atlus'
example...maybe we'll see Vib-Ribbon someday.
-Mike
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Mike gets serious brownie points with me for mentioning what is by far my largest disappointment: the Fire Emblem series. Nintendo has shown themselves immensely talented in every genre they've tried, from platformers to racing to RPGs, yet their flagship RPG series has never made it out here. Intelligent Systems has been responsible for games from Excitebike to the Metroid series, which is alone enough to set virtually gamer drooling. Fire Emblem 64 crashed and burned and a PSX version is in some sort of development, though I don't know how the name/copyright/staffer issues have been happening.
Nintendo seriously and massively dropped the ball here, and Square deserves all the credit in the world for pushing RPGs with the gusto they did here in the states. But they had a very good reason – it's all they do well.
Companies like Nintendo and Sega could afford to be lazy about translating RPGs because they had other blockbuster titles to fall back on in those days. Square has only one genre in which they have distinguished themselves and had no choice but to try and open up new markets for it. The fact we're discussing a relative handful of games, virtually all from the pre-PSX era, is a testament to just how well they did that.
Raining on our parade |
E!,
Generally speaking, games are not translated for good reasons. Maybe
there's way too much text, culture-specific humor, too high production
costs, or maybe the game's really not that good. It's always fun to go up in
arms over Square not giving us stuff like SD3 and FF5 (at the time), but
I've played both now and they're not really worth it. While I'm all for
quirky titles, I think a lot of people just want games like Vib Ribbon and
DDR to come over based on principle rather than if they'd actually buy the
game.
I'm very glad that movies like CTHD made their way over to the US in their
original form, but that doesn't mean that I want every wacky
Japanese/Chinese movie released to find their way to my local theatre. And
I'm pretty sure they're thanking us that movies like Dumb and Dumber didn't
make it over to their own shores.
-Red Raven
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You certainly have an ally in the whole “liking rare games because it's l33t to do so” theory with our RS-hating friend, but not buying games because you only want them coming over on principle may just lead to a game you do want never coming over at all. It's definitely shortsighted.
Take one for the team occasionally!
This guy is more pot rabbit than crack rabbit |
Ed,
It used to be SD3, but now I own a copy and a translatd ROM anyways, so
I'm saying Vib Ribbon. I want my crack rabbit, dammit...
-The Neocount of Merentha, still pulling cactus spines out of his arms. Damn cat.
|
Nice sentiment, but the argument just doesn't match the lunatic energy of the game enough.
Try this next time:
A letter worthy of the game |
I WANT MY DANCING CRACK RABBIT!
I WANT MY DANCING CRACK RABBIT!
I WANT MY DANCING CRACK RABBIT!
I WANT MY DANCING CRACK RABBIT!
I WANT MY DANCING CRACK RABBIT!
I WANT MY DANCING CRACK RABBIT!
I WANT MY DANCING CRACK RABBIT!
I WANT MY DANCING CRACK RABBIT!
I WANT MY DANCING CRACK RABBIT!
I WANT MY DANCING CRACK RABBIT!
I WANT MY DANCING CRACK RABBIT!
I WANT MY DANCING CRACK RABBIT!
I WANT MY DANCING CRACK RABBIT!
I WANT MY DANCING CRACK RABBIT!
I WANT MY DANCING CRACK RABBIT!
I WANT MY DANCING CRACK RABBIT!
I WANT MY DANCING CRACK RABBIT!
I WANT MY DANCING CRACK RABBIT!
I WANT MY DANCING CRACK RABBIT!
I WANT MY DANCING CRACK RABBIT!
I WANT MY DANCING CRACK RABBIT!
I WANT MY DANCING CRACK RABBIT!
even though a dancing crack rabbi would be funnier...gives you something to
think about, neh?
-rachel |
Then import him. This isn't exactly a game in that the language barrier presents a serious problem, especially considering that the truly insane original Japanese soundtrack would have probably been tamed somehow in a U.S. version. Get yourself a mod chip and you'll have all the dancing crack rabbit you could ever possibly need.
In the meantime, take this WinAmp skin instead, courtesy of our own Dancing Crack Fraundorf.
Seiken Denbitchsu 3 |
Ed,
There is one game that the mention of which will nearly always launch me into
a tirade. The game is Seiken Densetsu 3. It's not that it's a personal
favorite of mine, or that I'm ticked off about that game in particular. It's
more like the mention of the game triggers my memories of the SITUATION, and
it's the situation that I never understood.
Okay. Square USA has a hit on their hands with Secret of Mana, and
Squaresoft mania overtakes the country. Or, well, at least a whole bunch of
total nerdy kids with weight problems. The point is, there are a lot of
them, and they have money. So after the success of Final Fantasy III and
Chrono Trigger, Square then has enough money to either
1) Translate 2 or even 3 Japanese games or
2) Create almost from scratch a completely new one.
Whether you like Secret of Evermore or not, chew on this: the amount of time,
effort, and money it MUST have taken to create an entirely new game could
just as easily have been spent on translating and producing two or even three
Japanese ones. So we lost, because of Secret of Evermore, not only Seiken 3
but also FFV and maybe even another Japanese game like Romancing Saga, Front
Mission, Treasure Hunter G, Rudra's Treasure... whatever.
Even at the time I knew it was a stupid decision.
Of course, there is justice in the world, because right after this happened,
Square USA folded and everyone involved in this debacle lost their jobs.
Chris Kohler
|
This is the best of the many SD3 letters I got, mainly because it managed to blame a whole bunch of stuff on Secret of Evermore. I own the game, and while it isn't a classic, I found it diverting enough, especially all the trading in the markets. But I didn't worship Secret of Mana, so maybe my whole "Secret of" judging abilities are shot.
Your two choices aren't the best way to present the situation, by the way. It wasn't about having enough money to do one or the other, but about which would bring a greater return on the investment. Square figured a U.S.-developed game would make the genre more accessible, but they forgot that what drew in most RPG fans of that era happened to be some of the more Japanese qualities of the games. Oops.
A better explanation is that Square rushed their U.S. development into producing original product without the proper training. Nintendo's new U.S. house, NST, has done a number of ports and updates before they'll venture into a completely original title. This means they'll have a firm grasp on what makes quality software from a variety of standpoints before doing so, and probably guarantees a much better end result.
He's done his homework... or at least read about games a lot |
Well, I can't pick a single game I'm most upset about, so I'll pick two series. The first
is the rest of the Front Mission series. For those who don't know, this included two
Super Famicom games (FM1 and FM: Gun Hazard, more of an action RPG) and two PSX games (FM2
and FM Alternative, a little closer to an RTS). With FM3 having come out in the U.S., I
imagine a Front Mission Anthology would (hopefully) sell at least reasonably well, and the
FM2 load times (which were always complained about by import reviewers) would probably be
reduced on the PS2.
The other is Sakura Taisen (Sakura Wars), which had a 4-part anime released in the
States. There are currently two installments in the series with a third in development. These
games were extremely popular in Japan (and it's no wonder, since Kousuke Fujishima did the
character designs), and yes, it's a dating sim/strategy RPG, so it might be considered
quirky, but so what if it is? We NEED quirky games in the U.S. And heck, we got Incredible
Crisis; can a dating sim/strategy RPG really be more quirky than that?
Okay, enough ranting for me.
Alex Bender
Who waits for Chrono Trigger PSX... and waits... and waits...
|
This was just too level-headed and informative not to print.
And remember, it could always be worse. Much worse. |
Let me get this straight : I have NO idea when I might see Skies of Arcadia,
FFIX just came out here, these poor people will never ever see
Xenogears.................and you guys are complaining about the games
you'll never get in America?
Appreciate what you have. Shame on you for your greed! When you're busy
playing your Final Fantasy Tactics and your Lunar 2s, think of the people in
the U.K., and be satisfied.
Negative Creep
|
Kinda makes the rest of this column seem terribly petty, doesn't it? Not that you'd ever find me busy playing Lunar 2.
Closing Comments:
Onimusha: 4 hours
Z.O.E: 3 hours
The Bouncer: 2 ½ hours
What the hell happened? Did somebody fire all the scenario writers and level designers when they brought on new artists? I can see why Metal Gear Solid games are so short, as they're more story than gameplay, but I'd expect more than 3 hours from giant flying and fighting robots.
I don't care if ice cubes melt realistically, I don't care if I can see fluid running through a robot's tubes, and I don't care if I can play back through a game in a panda suit. I want more first-play value, and I'm not getting it. Does this trend bother anyone else?
Tell me.
-Ed McGlothlin, hoping you got your money's worth
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