Flotsam and jetsam - October
6, 2000 - Chris Jones
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed
within this column are those of the participants and the
moderator, and do not necessarily reflect those of the
GIA. There is coarse language and potentially offensive
material afoot. I saw the Freeware movie, and now I want to be a small
blue AI.
Don't say we didn't warn you.
Looking at the recently posted Amano pirate
artwork for FF9, I
realized that while I like Amano's work as a general thing, his
drawings have the consistency of a fever dream. Blurry watercolors,
slightly off lines, odd perspectives and facial expressions... Not
things that I enjoy as a rule, but he makes it work somehow. Dunno
why, either. It's just one of those odd things, I guess.
Onward.
| All alive and squishy
and stuff |
| The Inimitable Mr. Jones,
I know you're sick of Chrono Cross rants, but I've still got somethin' ta say,
dammit.
What impressed me most about the game, and indeed what makes the best case for
its being considered a legitimate work of art, is its masterful use of a
coherent imagery. Imagery is one of those nebulous terms you talk about in
English class that can mean as much or as little as you ascribe to it. I'm
referring mostly to the pictures and thoughts expressed through the dialogue,
but the graphics and sound contribute as well. From the moment you set foot
outside your house in Arni, it is evident just how important the sea is in
this game. The protagonist is from a fishing village: the sea is life.
References are made to man in the sea being like a babe in a womb (e.g.. when
Serge gets "reborn"). Yet, more than one villager talks about the dangerous
side of the sea--how it takes life, as well, and can be a malicious force to
be feared. Indeed, the other Serge experiences this aspect when he drowns.
This whole aspect of liminality permeates the game. Man is both the child of
the planet and an extraneous infestation. Serge is both himself and Yamaneko.
FATE is man's villain and savior. And CC itself is both a world and... a
shiny disk. Beyond this, the whole conflict between dreams and fate is just
cool. I'll spare you the semantics here, but it ties in really well with
Chrono Trigger. See the P.S.
This richness of imagery is further enhanced by the graphics and sound to
produce what I consider to be the first truly "living" world I've ever
experienced in a game. The animated, organic backgrounds, the fluid movement
of the characters even when standing still, and the best soundtrack ever
composed being played by real musicians on real instruments and you can
actually hear them BREATHE... Yes, it's all very pretty. But more than that,
it makes you feel like these characters are real and their world is real and
you experience them all the more. This too is part of CC's masterful imagery.
Their world is alive and dynamic, and that is what the characters are
fighting to save. They run like the wind whilst their laughter echoes etc.,
and we're right there with them.
So, you ask, what does it all mean? Nothing, really. Like an Impressionist
painting, it doesn't push you to some goal, but rather revels in the moment
and explores all the possible shades and colors. No, CC did not give my life
new meaning and purpose. It is not a philosophical treatise. But I have to
admit, the themes and imagery of the game came back to me more than once and
at times invoked a serious contemplation of man's role on the planet and our
own place in it. It is when a work results in this, our experiencing it
outside the bounds of a medium, that I consider it "art."
And I had a damn good time doing it, too.
D'Aphid, the real Chrono Trigger
Extended P.S. Something that keeps buggin' me: I replayed Chrono Trigger
recently to look at just how it ties into CC. One of their biggest shared
themes was the conflict between fate and dreams. Now when they go back to
65,000,000 BC and get the Rare Red Rock, aka Dreamstone, that is not a part of
Lavos. I used to think it was, but they get it well before Lavos crash-lands.
This later becomes the Masamune and, I believe, the Mammon Machine. And I
recall in CT hearing from a sage or someone that it was their contact with
Dreamstone that enabled man's success. Indeed the Masamune embodies the
"hopes and dreams" of Melchior. The thing is, I recall in CC something to the
effect that the M. Machine was made from Lavos and that he caused man's
success. So, is the Dreamstone part of Lavos? If so, how'd it get there? If
not, what is it? |
On the one hand, I really can't see this theme - the game is
centered around the sea, sure, but that's because they live on a set
of islands. The graphics were good, but didn't strike me as
particularly organic, and all this smells ever so slightly of a
Xenogears fan promoting their personal Grand Unification theory.
On the other hand, you're not promoting any deeper meaning here, or
suggesting that this was an earth shaking work of art, so I'm inclined
to let it go. Maybe I'm just blind on this one - it's something to
think about, regardless.
| She won't date me
unless we play Simon Says... |
| Chris:
I'm surprised no one mentioned the importance of adding a Dating Sim aspect
to RPGs. I'm only half joking.
In all seriousness, it is almost always disappointing to me when a game
doesn't include at least one stupid little mini-game, preferably one that
you don't have to play, but which gives you "real" rewards. I probably spent
more time fishing in Breath of Fire III and playing cards in FFVIII than
most people did playing those entire games.
The mini-game is important because it gives people a much needed break from
the old kill-kill-kill/read some plot/kill-kill-kill pattern that is most
RPG gaming. Typically, after 3 or 4 hours of playing any game, I'm just damn
tired of it. If I don't get a mini-game, I spend a while reading, but too
often don't return (that day) to the game. But when there's a card game, or
fish to be caught, or even (Azure Dreams comes to mind) a few chicks in town
to rebuff my best efforts to woo them, then I can switch smoothly between
enjoying the story and enjoying utter shenanigans, and I always return to
the game.
Darklao, who might actually condescend to save the world if he was allowed
catch women with a fishing pole and then play cards with them for hours. |
For me, it depends a lot on the minigame. I really liked the
motorcycle game in FFVII because it was enjoyable and fit in well with
the rest of the game. On the other hand, "do this completely bizarre
thing because of an arbitrary plot demand" gets old fast. You're right
that it's nice to have a break between battle and plot, but it should
either be a game-wide option that helps build the world up (Triple
Triad) or something that makes sense in the given context. For example,
as much as I like the FF8 dance FMV, it might also have been nice to
actually be able to control Squall, and have Rinoa's mood toward him
change depending on how smooth he was on the dance floor.
| For the truly
obsessed |
| There's already a two player mode in FFT, but you need
to use a Gameshark/Action Replay with the debug code. It's fun! You
can even fight on maps not used in the game (like around Ramza's
Dad's death bed, in Mustadio's house or the ruined church where Delita and Ovelia talk)
Don't let your friend pick Orlandu though...
Kett Shee
|
Sounds like too much of a hassle... besides, why should I actually
go out and do something about my desires when I can just sit here and
complain about them?
| A response by Mr.
Subliminal |
| Hey, Chris,
The Steve rocks, and Xenogears fanatics are cool, but as a
heterosexual female gamer, I have to say just one thing - naked Krelians
are good. I can do without the naked Feis, but come on. . . as I said to
my brother after we beat Xenogears, if only the ending of FF7 had included
a naked Sephiroth, it would have been infinitely superior to what it
was.
I think I've already embarrassed myself deeply, but I just wanted
to make this important point.
---Vierran of House Guaranty, suddenly realizing why she picked a nickname
in the first place |
I'm somewhat disturbed by what's in this letter naked guys. I appreciate that
the human form, both clothed elly in flightsuit and unclothed naked
elly, can be a beautiful thing elly's hot,
but it just cheapens the RPG experience of naked elly to rely
on mere eye candy elly elly elly.
It's just as natural for a young woman to find Sephiroth attractive
want me instead as
it is for a man to find Tifa compelling back off she's mine, but demanding that characters
pander to some romantic naked elly or sexual fantasy elly in
jello cheapens
both the player impossible and
the characters themselves who cares. Furthermore, the fact that such things
sell
games hell yeah makes it all the more likely that developers will warp their
artistic visions screw art to give us more of the same more elly, rather than the quality
we really want blonde elly.
| I guess we could just
give all 5s... |
| Chris-
I am shocked at the review Valkyrie Profile got from
the GIA. I had been waiting for several weeks for a
review, only to be met with this disappointment. The
reviewer said that there is not enough time for free
exploration, and that characters are not developed
past their introductory death. It is true that there
is little time for exploration, but that's how VP is
meant to be played. It conveys a sense of urgency;
the Ragnarok is approaching. Though some characters
(Arngrim and Jun come to mind) are not well-developed,
many of them are. Characters like Lezard Valeth,
Lucian, and Aelia are constantly being developed.
Aelia's friends pop up every chapter, teaching you
more about what they were all involved in. Lezard
Valeth shows up several times as well, revealing a
little more of his insane plot each time. Lucian,
however, is better developed than anyone else, his
relationship with other characters becoming clearer
and clearer each chapter...
Not all of the characters "nobly off themselves",
either. Some are killed by betrayal, some are
possessed by demons, and some do kill themselves. All
in all, there is a good variety of dramatic deaths.
There are some things in the review that I agree with,
such as the excellent character designs, and the
fantastic battle system. I would also have to agree
that the voice acting does leave much to be desired
sometimes. Since the text boxes take some time to
scroll, the conversations often sound choppy and
awkward. Naturally, such small problems can be
overlooked. This is the best game I've played all
year; I stopped playing Chrono Cross so I could play
this. A "3" is much too harsh for such a wonderful
game...
-Lezard Valeth, formerly "Shinji" |
Well, at least this is more polite and rational than some of the
LoD letters I got. Just in case I didn't make it clear back then,
here's my take on what can reasonably be expected from any review: the
basic facts about the game, as clearly and insightfully as the
reviewer can provide them, and the reviewer's personal take on the
work.
So the question is, did the VP review provide those things? Near as
I can tell, yeah, same as all our reviews try to do. Might you or I
come up with a different score on a particular game? Absolutely. I
personally thought Nich's spin on Dewprism was way too low (an easy 4,
in my opinion) and that 5 was far too high a ranking for Front Mission
3. But regardless, both of those reviews did an excellent job of
presenting the basic facts about the games, so I can't fault them. Interpretation will always
be somewhat subjective, because what's great for one person may be
horrible to someone else for the exact same reasons, but what a review
reader should be looking for is the basic facts about a game, and we
provide those in spades. End of discussion.
| Next you'll actually
want to enjoy your games, too... |
| To all you people who don't like level-building and gaining strength in
RPG's, just play Zelda and Secret of Mana, and stop your whining. 'Nuff
said.
When I visit the GIA, I come away astonished that so many ingrates and
malcontents have come together in one place...
--Brad G. |
I feel your pain, Brad - we're just an incorrigible bunch of human
refuse, and should be forced to play 7th Saga until our eyes bleed.
But on the bright side, just consider this one thing: when the
revolution comes, you will be first against the wall getting us all
together in one place makes it easier to get rid of us in one single
sweep! Convenient, ain't it?
| The way he talks,
you'd think there were more than 50 people in the world... |
| CJ,
I'm annoyed that the fate of mankind comes down to 3 or 4 people. Where the
heck is the rest of mankind? Do they care about their own fate? Games
nowadays feature heroes that are simply god-like compared to the common
person, even when this doesn't make sense (FF6, FF7, FF8, CT, CC, ect.). For
the first half of FF6 the Empire had a huge reserve of mechs and Espers that
they could have used to crush the Returners. In FF7, Shinra had way more
soldiers than Cloud and co. could have held off (as seen when escaping from
the Shinra building). The pattern basically continues for most of the other
games: heroes seem to get by the super-powerful enemies until they reach
god-like status themselves, at which point 4 people duel with a final
boss.
I think a nice change of pace would be to have a final battle that does
justice to a primarily fighting/war game. Suikoden came close, but ended up
just like the rest. A large-scale battle (more than 50 characters) featuring
Front Mission 3 mechs or Final Fantasy Tactics soldiers, and a healthy dash
of real-time crazyness would make a great clincher to a 50-60 hour long
story marathon. Symbolic last battles are good, but are way overused. I want
an epic final confrontation that will have me jumping about the room yelling
"GO! GO! GO!" at the screen; a battle that'll make me sweat. I want to be
fighting a battle that I am unsure of winning, even with more powerful
characters. I want a battle that will be great enough to talk about long
after the system is turned off. I want a final battle done justice for once.
I don't think that's too much to ask.
-Red Raven, who looks wishfully at his copy of RPG Maker... |
There's a whole host of reasons why what you're saying hasn't been
traditionally done, but still, I like where you're
coming from. There's no reason that games can't consist of hundreds of
characters these days, as long as developers don't try to give each and
every one of them their own personality. I said earlier that I'd like
to see a game where a man fought for a city, but perhaps the city
could fight for itself, and we could skip "lone hero" thing entirely.
Kinda like Homeworld or the little people in Actraiser, but perhaps a little more personalized.
| A slightly unfair
example |
| Mr Jones,
Seems to me that the game Rhapsody already tried to mix strategy-based
battles (a la Front Mission 3, albeit a lot simpler) with a Final Fantasy
style adventure. We all see how well THAT fared with the masses.
-Some Random Jerk |
I think Rhapsody had a whole other slew of... differences, if not
problems, that made it an unsuitable model for a hybrid strategy RPG.
Still, I didn't think of that one, good call.
| Personally, I like my
characters to completely ignore each other |
| Making my own RPG ('Kokoro Wish' at Kokorowish.com)
means facing a really serious problem, a very serious set of choices.
Basically, do I design according to what clearly 'works' (but which
is getting very repetitive) or do I design something truly new,
and risk what seems to be an inevitable 'this crap is too weird to cope
with', or " I just could not 'get' this game' reaction. Nasty choice.
What works, works, surely enough, but why even bother spending two years
of your life making something if all it is is a mirror of EVERYTHING else?
Then again, there is no point if nobody 'gets it', either.
I will tell you two things I want to see, new things, and they are the things
I am attempting to actually do. Goddess but I hope I am right in thinking that
these are good ideas. maybe you, and your readers, can tell me:
1. Characters in a party who actually react and interact to each other, and
who can be caused to have conversations between each other.
Frankly I am sick to tears of the 'silent hero' and the mute party that only
ever does dialogue at key points, or in camp. I want to have characters act
like a family, like real people, I want to have them bitch, laugh, fear for
each other's safety in the middle of conflict, and comfort each other....or
just the opposite, if they do not get along. I want to have characters able
to talk to each other at any time. Now that is what we are doing in our game,
and I think it is a good idea....but then, I would, wouldn't I? It's my design,
so I think it's just grand. Question is, is it really?
2. Conflict -battles- that are not just poking things and watching them
squirt.
Now don't get me wrong, I love entrails and gore as much as the next psychopath,
and the idea of being drenched in viscous bodily ichor is as fun today, as it
was in the days of Edgar Rice Burroughs. Violence is great fun, well... until
somebody loses an eye.... then it's friggin hilarious! Still, when it comes
to an RPG, I want something deeper. What I want is to have characters face not
monsters, per se, but monstrous situations. I want the 'battle' to be one of
words, or of skill, or of knowledge, or of hearts, or against despair, or against
the self. I want to see folks 'fight' to save a life, or to repair a dangerous
machine, or to 'defeat' a treacherous mountain. And I want this to be a real
battle, not just text, not just something to watch. I want to tactically fight
that battle myself, as part of the game. Just like fighting some monster is part
of the game. Now the odd bit of bloodshed is fine, I just want 'conflict' to be
about more than whacking Pokemon That Have Not Been Tamed Yet. I think I have created
this too...but...is such a thing truly interesting enough to hold anyone's attention?
Big swords and magic are flashy. Even if emotional states and courageous efforts are
given symbolic sparkle, like magic sparkles, like squirting gore sparkles, is it too
weird? Is it anything anyone besides myself would find intriguing?
Perhaps I am doubting myself too much. Perhaps I should just run with my
design, and stop the second guessing. Still, I wonder....does anyone else also
want these two things, find the idea of such changes appealing too? Am I really
on a good path here?
Jennifer Diane Reitz
Otakuworld.com
Kokorowish.com |
I'll be honest - this letter was almost self-promoting enough so
that I didn't print it, especially since we don't even cover PC RPGs.
But it's very well written, highly germane to what we've been
discussing, and I'd probably do the same thing in Jennifer's
position, but much less tastefully. So up it goes. (Incidentally, I
really don't mean to come off sounding rude to Ms. Reitz, and
apologize if I did - I just wanted to give some sort of policy
explanation here.)
That said, it sounds great to me. One of the things that's been on
my mind recently is how much RPG characters seem to exist in a vacuum
from each other, for the most part. Even in CC, where (minor spoiler) you would have
expected Nikki, Marcy, Fargo and Irenes to have strongly interconnected
stories, plot revelations to play out one at a time. Grandia did a bit
of building a "family feeling" with mealtime conversation, but could
have gone much further. The way I
see it, there's no need to have characters discover long lost parents,
brothers, sisters, memories, past lives, etc. to build dramatic
tension, when they have each other to build off of.
As to your second point, it would depend strongly on how it was
done. Gameplay about more than defeating the
dungeon-creature-o'-the-week would be great, except when you consider
that such a game might devolve into nothing more than a set of
independent minigames. Minigames are great, but because they're such
shallow, limited gameplay engines, they often come off feeling...
limited and shallow. A set of distinct, well developed gameplay styles
would be great, if possible. Regardless, good luck on the game.
| It's... |
| And now for something completely different.
Is there any way to open the door that's "Locked completely" in the
Programmer ending in Chrono Cross? It's got me curious.
Jon, who almost typed "Chrono Chross". |
No clue - haven't explored the alternate endings that much, and
couldn't find anything online. If anybody has any answers, send 'em
over to AK, but MARK THEM AS SPOILERS, since I'm not sure if he's
finished the game.
Closing Comments:
That's it for this week. I'm gonna pick up Ogre Battle 64 tomorrow,
so hopefully I can give some feedback on Monday. Until then, take it
easy, and adios.
-Chris Jones, would settle
for being a large blue AI
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