Double Agent
You say you want a revolution - July 13, 2000 - Ed McGlothlin

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed within this column are those of the participants and the moderator, and do not necessarily reflect those of the GIA. There is coarse language and potentially offensive material afoot. 73% of all statistics are made up. Don't say we didn't warn you.

Well, isn't this is comfy chair!

I'm Ed McGlothlin, PR guru and previews/reviews editor here at the GIA, and I'm inserting myself into the Double Agent rotation for the next two days to help out my pressed-for-time coworkers. Strong opinions and loud expressions thereof are no stranger to me, so why don't we just dig right in and start the mud flying. Er, start the high-minded intellectual gaming debate.

Ignorance - not an innovative excuse
Ed

On the subject of innovation. Jeremy stated he doesn't think innovation is "the end-all-be-all of game aspects," but I think there's a simple reason as to why the idea of innovation appeals to a good chunk of RPG fans. First off, most RPG fans tend to really be fans. We play almost every one released, then we endlessly discus them in this vortex of wasted time that is the internet. As such, we've seen it all, and we've seen it all A LOT. As such, something different really sticks out, and begs for at least a look. Its why I want to play Rhapsody, its why I'm really looking forward to Valkyrie Profile and Persona 2. Something completely different can really bring a breath of fresh air, leaving behind the few hackneyed story structures that we've all played countless times. I can also assume that this is what is responsible for the extremely varied opinions of Legend of Dragoon that I've seen floating around. Most people that have played their fair share of RPGs see the game as the epitome of unoriginality; it rips everything it does straight from Final Fantasy, and then it throws in boring writing and unimaginative characters. However, relative RPG newbies don't really notice these things as much, and can enjoy the game on its own merits.

Justin Freeman

Remember the point in Army of Darkness when Ash dropped into medieval times with both his car and his shotgun? The knights were amazed. It was like nothing they had ever seen before. I wonder if people who thought Legend of Dragoon was a good game shared a similar experience.

Even so, that wouldn't explain how professional reviewers, from Next Generation to Daily Radar (haha), gave the game high marks. I haven't seen a less innovative game since whatever the last game 989 Studios made was. While it's certainly true that innovation isn't everything, if you aren't going to innovate, you better be skilled enough to execute at a comparable or higher level than anyone else who tread the path before you.

Also worth noting is the distinction between "good game" and "fun game" -- the first requires such things as quality and innovation, while the latter is almost completely relative. How many people don't find RPGs fun at all, no matter how well made? I think that people who enjoyed Legend of Dragoon need to be more comfortable with the fact they enjoyed a bad game, rather than blaming others for pointing out its obvious and pervasive flaws.

Next step... no controller at all!
Several people complain that the most recent Final Fantasy games are more like interactive movies than actual RPGs. So? In my opinion, I think this is fine. It doesn't matter how much I have to actually touch the controller, as long as whatever RPG I play provides enough entertainment to keep me from doing something else...like reading.

-SC4000

The only problem with that point of view is that games are ultimately supposed to be played. If you are doing more watching than controlling, then you might as well be at the controls of a glorified RPG version of Night Trap. But there's plenty of space in the spectrum of development philosophies between "lots of watching" (Metal Gear Solid) and "lots of playing" (Mario), and each end is better suited for certain types of games.

As for the complaints you mentioned, I don't buy the interactive movie argument for a second. I absolutely loved Xenogears, but the second disc was far more like an "interactive movie" than anything seen yet in the Final Fantasy series. People villified CG cutscenes solely because they happened to come about at the same time as the leap away from fantasy motifs, which was their legit gripe.

Yes, she means "Experiential"
I have seemed to notice a strange reaction to certain recently released RPG's, a reaction I would like to address.

'Legend Of Mana' comes immediately to mind. Despite being acknowledged both in letters and in reviews for having beautiful graphics, and other good qualities, suffers from two common complaints; the lack of strong challenge and the absence of an absolute goal to the game. These are apparently seen as negative features.

I wish to submit that there can be thought to be two flavors of RPG's that most people may not have considered before. I call them the 'Experiential' RPG, versus the 'Conquest' style of RPG.

Perhaps most RPG's are of the 'Conquest' variety. The basic form is rigid, and always the same: World/Kingdom/Universe in Danger, Hero(s) arise, Great Deeds Are Done, Everything Saved, The End. It is ultimately a tale of Conquest. It is akin to a single movie, seen once. This basic form is easy to grasp, easy to follow, and has a concrete resolution...it is a game with a defined state of completion. It closes the gestalt, it has a setup, a middle part, and a definite end.

But there is another way to do things.

For 'Legend of Mana', the game is really a set of short stories, akin to a television series. For 20 minutes or so, a simple drama, an episode, can be played out, which has a start and a finish. However, any given episode does not change the overall world, and there is no ultimate conclusion. The experience is a serial one, an experiential one. The entertainment is not meant to be one of racing to a conclusion, but one of constant exploration of a fiction...just as each new episode of a TV series may examine something new about the show, without ever changing the basic premise.

Such a style cannot have a powerful challenge level, because it would make each 'episode' incredibly difficult, and take longer than 20 minutes or so to complete. The game would cease being one of constant little, lighthearted rewards and pleasures, and become a struggle...in short....'Conquest' once again.

The 'Experiential' model is useful, especially for people who have lives, and loves, in the actual world. It serves as light entertainment, less involving than going to a movie, more like turning on the television for a half hour, or reading a single chapter from a book before bed. Perhaps RPG's should be judged with this in mind, with the notion that an RPG could be designed either as a 'movie', or as 'Television', as a game of 'Conquest', or as an episodic 'Experience' of a long running, unchanging series. If both are seen as valid, if different, then I think both reviews, and letters might become a bit more....expansive.

Jennifer Diane Reitz
Otakuworld.com

Your metaphor is an admirable one, but watching a bunch of 20 minute shows without a consistent plot doesn't equate to watching a television series, it equates to watching different shows on the same network all day -- an infinitely more boring proposition to most people. I do agree that Legend of Mana is a change of pace and should be enjoyed in a different manner than your usual game. Unfortunately, that the game gives little sense of progress when there is no ultimate goal to achieve or storyline to follow. I'd rather have the option of playing a game for 20 minutes because it was fun or playing it for 10 hours because the quest was simply that engrossing. Chrono Cross, for instance.

SMACK! POW! KA-BOOM!
Hey hey!!

You know what the Dragon Quest/Final Fantasy debate reminds me of? That scene in "The Dark Knight Returns" when Batman beats the crap out of Superman. These are two things that the people love, and everybody prefers one over the other, but we don't want to see the death of either. And they're huge spectacular giants in what they do, and while the bigger power (Superman/FF) is taking most of the glory, the underdog (DQ in the US at least/Batman) sneaks in and beats the hell out of him. That doesn't completely make sense, I just wanted to make a reference to my favorite graphic novel.

Gilbert

Since I prefer Batman's dark sense of style over Superman's primary-colored tights, I'll have to say that old-school Krypton Boy gets stuck with Dragon Quest as an ally. Besides, there isn't even a "Dragon Quest/Final Fantasy debate" to speak of, considering that the former hasn't put up a fight here in the states for years. I may have disliked much of Final Fantasy VII and not even played most of Final Fantasy VIII, but Square deserves a huge amount of credit for pushing the boundries relentlessly.

And from what we've played of Dragon Quest VII, don't expect it to be beating anything up any time soon.

Soldier of Stupidity
Hey, DA,

What the heck is going on up in Canada with video games? British Columbia just classified Soldier of Fortune as "Adult material", the same classification reserved for hardcore pornography, based on the recommendation of the BC Film Classification Office, of all things. What next, will Mario be banned because he squishes those poor Goombas, or Final Fantasy VIII because there's *gasp* kissing?

Lochiel

Hey everyone, can we guess what happens when people who don't know a goddamned thing about gaming start trying to legislate and regulate games? Well, this is it.

B.C. Attorney General Andrew Petter was widely quoted saying that parents don't know if a game "contains graphic depictions of violence that involves their child in killing or maiming or torture -- or whether it's a benign hopping hedgehog that's bouncing off balls and collecting points." This is exactly the same as saying "parents don't know from the posters and trailers whether their child is watching a Disney movie or people having sex with animals!" The idea that a game based on a magazine which can be seen freely in newstands belongs in the same category as the hardest of hardcore porn is ridiculous. Besides, any parent who looks at Soldier of Fortune's box and Sonic's box and can't see the difference needs to blame bad luck in genetics, not the gaming industry.

Let's do the Time Warp again!
Ed McGothSin,

Why is everyone bashing DQ7 just because it isn't as innovative as a game like Vagrant Story (which really isn't THAT innovative). It follows series tradition, but it's got as many new features as virtually any other new game. Why be so hard on it just because it's Dragon Quest? Can't we just accept the fact that it will be a very well made RPG and leave it at that? The point is not that it's revolutionary, but that it does what it does better than anyone else, because they founded the genre and they know what they're doing. Want proof that a traditional game can be amazing if done well: Lunar. Ed, back me up on this one. (Oh, and don't give me the "people just like arguing because we're unpleasant trolls" line either, because that's too easy).

-Sickpigman

People are bashing Dragon Quest VII because it looks and plays like a game from 1993. Granted, the play time given thus far was extremely limited, but it wasn't very pretty in any sense of the word. What exactly is "traditional," anyway? It sounds suspiciously like a code word for "old" to me in many instances. Lunar was allowed to be old because it was a remake - can you tell me that people should have looked at Lunar the same way if the game had been an original late 90's project?

I do hope that Dragon Quest VII turns out to be a good iteration the series, but a game's potential is instantly slashed if it only aims to continue doing well something that has already been done well before. If I want nostalgia, I'll play the old carts -- the idea behind a sequel should be something more than repetition. Super Mario 64 and Legend of Zelda: OoT were such astounding games because they took what made the old games fun and built layers of new and immersive features upon that foundation.

Closing Comments:

You may be wondering how someone of my lovely manner does PR, but I believe that a little edginess never hurt anyone. Though I hate dumping on a game before I sit down with it, Dragon Quest VII hasn't demonstrated any reason to think it'll stand out from, oh, Dragon Quest I-VI. Maybe playing games like Vagrant Story and Chrono Cross has raised the bar a bit high, but the bottom line remains that Square has fought the hardest during the last console generation to evolve the RPG genre from 3D retreads of NES games.

Without Square and Nintendo, I wonder if most popular genres would have moved an inch in the past 5 years.

Whether you loved it, as I did Vagrant Story, or were turned off by it, as I was by Final Fantasy VIII, the idea here is that a company that only repeats or refines itself is doomed to be left behind.

-Ed McGlothlin, trying to hide his lack of graphical skills by avoiding awards

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