Disclaimer: The opinions expressed within this column are those of the participants and the moderator, and do not necessarily reflect those of the GIA. There is coarse language and potentially offensive material afoot. Lord help me, I actually used to think that line was cool. In my defense, it was the 80's, so no one else had any taste either. Don't say we didn't warn you.

Not a huge amount of feedback on the FAQ thing, but what I did get was in favor of it, so I'll try to solder one together over the weekend. Of course, the likely reason I didn't get so much feedback on the FAQ is because I got so much commentary on the Horii interview and to a lesser extent Alpaca's letter. I don't want to pick on him too much but he certainly riled people up good, and I think the column will show the response. Should be a good 'un, either way.

Onward.

Just one small question I have to ask you - if you hated every last one of the 32-bit era Square RPGs, then why did you buy them, or even play them? I'd think it would have been obvious by the time Xenogears came out where the games were headed, so at the very least you could have spared yourself the pain of FF8.

There's a certain amount of meat to your argument, but let's look at things from another perspective: the recent FFs are not the totally passive bottle-feedings many have made them out to be, but are rather just as explorative as any previous 16-bit games. The main difference lies in what gets explored.

Consider that with the proper skills set, you don't have to fight any random battles past the first disk. With the proper spells junctioned to your stats, your characters are near invincible regardless if you've forged the best weapons or found the best GFs. Does this mean the game's without challenge? Maybe, although I found figuring out all of the above pretty tough without a game guide. But even if I concede the point, there's plenty to do. Getting the weapons, finding the GFs, going on all the subquests, finding where rare monsters resided to draw unique spells, all of these go pretty firmly in the "interesting gameplay" column for me.

Then there's Triple Triad. Even if you didn't find the game itself that interesting (which I did, without question) the idea that every nook and cranny of the world was populated with dozens, if not hundreds, of opponents is a brilliant idea. There's very little "show" here.

And lastly, there's the question of what's worth seeing. To me, there's little point in going through something like the Deep Dungeon in FFT or the Ancient Cave in Lufia II just to get a really powerful weapon and show what an RPG stud I am. Any such weapon almost invariably isn't worth the time you put in to getting it, and I don't base my self esteem on beating an arbitrarily difficult set of software obstacles. (I base my self esteem on beating out more than one hundred other people to get this job, suckas!) I'd much rather be satisfied with the meat of the game, and seeing things like the giant solar reflector in Fisherman's Horizon. Simply wandering around that town for a while, taking in the sights, listening to the calm, relaxed music, gave me more contentment than any boss I've ever beaten. It was well worth the $50, no question.

But maybe it's all a Type B personality thing, I don't know. 

I dunno, John, if there's one thing I know about marketers it's that they tend to party hardy, especially on Fridays. In fact, if you're not totally wasted by 5pm at some places, you get transferred back to engineering where the most outrageous it ever gets is the Thursday night Starcraft tournament. That said, I agree it's unlikely Alpaca was correct. Any marketer stupid enough to laugh at the people (s)he's trying to sell to doesn't stay around long.

Strangely enough, I was having damn near this exact conversation with a fellow staffer last night. And I'm gonna tell you what I told him - Mario (and Zelda) are great games, but even so I don't think they're on FF's level.

Don't get me wrong - the mainstream Marios and Zeldas are worth just as much hype as any Final Fantasy, and exhibit just as much inventiveness and quality, if not more. But with the exception of the first 3 Marios on the NES, none of these games have had to deal with what FF thrives on - a technical learning curve.

Think about it. SMB, SMW, and Mario 64 were all technical showpieces for what the newest Nintendo could do, but mostly that's as far as they went. The Zeldas have all been released around the middle of a console's lifespan, and show off what's possible with a good command of the system. None of them have ever had to evolve as the company learned more and more technical tricks, and had to deal with their previous incarnations on the same system. (Again, with the exception of Super Mario 1-3, which did mature very well.)

Final Fantasy, on the other hand, has always had to top the game it put out just a few short years ago, and I think we can agree that they've generally succeeded. I can't talk about the NES games, but general consensus seems to be that FF6 was better than FF4, although both were great for the time, and FF8 was better than FF7, with both again being pretty damn good. Sooner or later FF will probably stumble, but for now they've got a reputation for quality that's pretty much peerless.

I'd like to comment on your letter, but I stopped reading it when you told me to! *rimshot*

I think it's pretty clear that "show" model games are dominant in the console RPG marketplace. Horii said so himself in the bit of the interview I quoted yesterday. PC RPGs are indeed a different breed, but this column is hardly ever about them. And most of the console RPGs you mention have recent incarnations where the non-interactive story is at least as big a draw as exploration, character building, etc. Even though they don't borrow exact gameplay details from Final Fantasy (Active Time Battle system, frex) the strong story arcs of the FF series are clearly a roadmap.

I think what's really important here is that we not fall for two bogus dichotomies. First off, it's foolish to suggest that DQ is all about gameplay and FF is all about story. The original DQs on the NES had pretty good stories for their time, and I've already talked about FF's gameplay. They may drift toward differing sides of the scale, but neither series is entirely "show" or "active".

Second, even a game that's "active" can have a very strong story, good graphics, even FMV. As you pointed out, Vagrant Story is indeed active, and I loved that about the game. But I also liked the strong story arc, and don't feel any of it would have been compromised had the cutscenes had voice actors or FMV. The presence of pretty pictures in FF8 doesn't negate the fact that getting all the Triple Triad cards represents one of the deepest sidequests in all of gaming. I think Horii is gravely mistaken in his assertion that "show" RPGs are for beginners, or that having a strong story is equivalent to hand holding. I never, ever felt that I didn't have room to wander around in FF7 or 8, and doubt I will in 9.

As I said yesterday, I'm curious as to what Horii's going to put in this FF to make it interesting - that's not necessarily a statement of doubt, but I do see the lack of a plotline as a weakness. I simply expect more of games today than I did in the SNES era, and if DQ7's simply a rehash of DQ4 or even Chrono Trigger's gameplay, I don't see myself as a satisfied customer. On the other hand, after all this DQ7 discussion I feel honor bound to get the game and play it through, if only give an honest opinion when it's time for post-mortem.

I gotta admit, I laughed at this, despite the fact that it's somewhat xenophobic and bigoted. On the other hand, that's kind of the point of the joke, so maybe it's ok to laugh. Or maybe it really is from Sakaguchi... hell, I dunno. Judge for yourself.

I can't argue much with what you're saying, except that such "aha!" moments aren't why I play games. Frankly, as a coder, I have more than enough small epiphanies of that type every day. And hell, many of them even involve the manipulation of menus on a screen! It's a good feeling, but it's not something I want to do a lot of when I get home.

On the other hand, I can see why you'd like the sensation, and I can't deny that part of the reason I'm a programmer in the first place is the puzzle solving skills I got from the original Zelda. If anything, I'd say this is another point in FF's favor, since the difficult puzzles are there but not part of the mainstream game. I can see how you might see it different, tho.

The DA FAQ would probably be located within the letters page, so there's no danger of adding anything to the GIA FAQ. Which is only good and proper, as we all know, because that FAQ already contains all necessary information anyway.

Again, not a lot to argue with here. I also hope if Alpaca does dislike FF as much as he claims that he can find another series to enjoy - maybe even DQ7! But as Nick's said, such fanaticism is the reason we're here in the first place. C'est la vie.

Closing Comments:

I'm sure some people will find this next topic a simple follow-up on my FMV-lovin' soft core ways, while others will find it a complete betrayal of everything I've said thus far. But to mine own self be true, etc., etc.

First, a shocking confession - FFVI is among my least favorite Final Fantasies, in close proximity to V. It was a good game, but the insistence on each character getting their moment in the spotlight and the lack of a strong central arc meant it didn't draw me in like FFIV. There was also the originality factor, since I didn't feel I was seeing something vastly superior to FFIV or even Secret of Mana, which I'd played the previous year. I also remember having more fun with both FFVII and VIII in comparison. And while I'm much more pro about the game than anti, I can't quite fathom why it gets the praise it does.

So your mission, should you choose to except it, is to explain to me exactly what makes FFVI the end all be all of Final Fantasy games. You can explain it to me from an old school perspective, from an FF-lover's perspective, whatever. Your call. I'd just like to see some well-written analysis of the game. Until then, sayonara.

-Chris Jones, expecting the mob with flaming torches and pitchforks any moment now