Not marketing-level evil, but close - April 6th, 2000 -
Chris Jones
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed within this column are those of
the participants and the moderator, and do not necessarily reflect those of the GIA. There
is coarse language and potentially offensive material afoot. Man, AK's gonna kill me...
Don't say we didn't warn you.
Well, I'm about a day late on this, and it really should be Mr. Kaufmann doing it anyway,
but whatever. According to Entertainment Weekly, on April 5th, 1980 a then-unnamed band
played their first large public concert in Athens Georgia, to celebrate the birthday of
one Kathleen O'Brien, housemate of the singer, guitarist and drummer. The concert was a
success, and soon after the band settled on a name: REM.
In celebration of this momentous occasion, I'd like to offer you a bit of my own
version of one of their classics, "Radio Free Europe." Enjoy!
[sung in a somewhat nasal whine]
"Callingonintransitcallingonintransitradiofreeeuroperadiofreeeurope
callingonintransitcallingonintransitradiofreeeuroperadiofreeeurope..."
Thank you! Thank you very much!
| I stand corrected, once more |
| In today's column, you said something to the effect that Dragon Quest
games have been longer than contemporary Final Fantasy games, but only because of
excessive level building. I can't believe how inaccurate this statement is. Since you've
only played the first 4 DQ games, let's compare the largest 8-bit Final Fantasy game (FF3)
to one of the largest 8-bit DQ games (DQ3). (DQ4 is about the same size as DQ3, and I
remember 3 better) Dragon Quest 3 has twenty major cities/castles (locations you can
return to with the "Return" spell) plus another dozen or so small villages,
shrines and other places with people and story events in them.
FF3 has sixteen town-like locations: Ur, Kazus, Sassoon, Canaan, Tozas, the Viking
Base, the Ancients' Village, the Dwarf Cave, Gisahl, Tokkle, Amur, Salonia, Dastar,
Leprit, Fargabaad and Dorga's Village. If you haven't played FF3, FF1 is even smaller. FF1
has only eight towns, two of them with castles, in the entire game.
Moreover, DQ towns have more people and more *stuff* in them than FF towns. You can
talk to the scullery maids in the castle kitchens, or walk into people's houses and talk
to them (FF towns, prior to FF6, don't seem to even have houses; the only buildings in
them are the shops, the inn, and maybe a plot-related building or two) In DQ3 and 4, you
can visit a town by day or by night, and the people will be doing different things. FF
towns are more like movie sets: the only people and objects you can interact with are the
ones immediately relevant to the game's plot.
This letter started out as little more than a flame, but I think I've got an answer to
your question as to why people love DQ: while FF and many other JRPGs feel like you're
directing a movie, DQ feels more like you're living in another world. The little events
and side-plots in every town make the game world seem like a *world*, and not like a
cardboard set erected for the sole purpose of telling one story. DQ games are *bigger*
than FF games, and it has nothing to do with level building.
--AWJ-- |
Looking back, I was comparing DQ1 to FF1, and DQ4 to FF4. The first isn't fair, because
FF1 has its share of leveling, and while the second is legit (I remember leveling quite a
lot in DQ4, but not at all in FF4 until Zeromus) the games were on two different systems
with two different aims (new system showpiece vs. old system masterpiece) so maybe I can't
use that either. Point taken.
But if anything this proves the other point I had yesterday - the DQ series has not
always been as conservative as people are making them out to be. You can't make the claim
that DQ is so much bigger and more complicated than Final Fantasy, and then turn around
and say, "I don't need all this newfangled graphics and materia and functioning, I
want good old menus and leveling up." Maybe people love DQ because it feels like a
world, and maybe you don't need to design a cutting edge piece of software to deliver that
world, but I still say something feels bad about DQ7. The pro-DQ forces have put up a very
good fight in this debate, but I gotta wonder how much their tastes have changed since DQ6
without them even realizing it. You may have become more addicted to storytelling RPGs
than you or anybody realizes.
| Hell freezes over |
| Chris- I am writing to you again (I will continue to write in the
hopes that you will post my letter) to voice my opinion on Square releasing so many RPGs
in one year. I, for one, have a job, so I will be able to buy the games at will. I haven't
had it for long, so I understand what it's like to be broke. I for one, am looking forward
to Legend of Mana and Chrono Cross (I don't really want Vagrant Story). Chrono Trigger was
one of the best games I've ever played, and the sequel should be fantastic. Secret of Mana
wasn't quite as good, but a 2-player cooperative RPG is one of the best ideas since Active
Time Battle. But, supposing that you are lacking money, I would say that Chrono Cross and
Final Fantasy IX are the only games that you need to have. That's just my opinion, but no
matter what, one will have to decide what they'll like the best, and realize that they
might not be able to get every game as soon as it comes out.
-Shinji
P.S. Please post this letter. |
Fat chance, pal. I will never, ever print this letter as long as I live, no matter how
pathetic and pleading you are. I'll burn all my Square CDs and start reading romance
novels with Fabio on the cover before I print your freakin' letter, man... Oh, damn.
At any rate, I agree that CC and FF9 are the must haves of the season, with Lunar 2 (I
don't think the game is anything other than a solid RPG, but Working Designs kills me) and
Vagrant story as close seconds.
| Which one of them has the 'Evil Spock' goatee? |
| Hello, Agent. Akira Toriyama is the anti-Amano. If you were to put
both of these people in a room, there would be a massive explosion. Kinda like Elvis and
Anti-Elvis.
But that should be pretty obvious if you look at any of their works. Toriyama: DBZ,
Chrono Trigger, DQ: short, squat people with hair that you could impale yourself on.
Sometimes, watching Dragonball, I think is that his head or an eggplant?
Amano: FF, Kartia, Vampire Hunter D (whoo yea!): Tall, etheral, is that a guy or a girl?
Pretty consistent. Look at the art from Kartia. See Terra and Celes? Just thought I'd make
a pretty obvious comparison.
-Miaowara Shiro, more jaded than usual gamer.
PS: every other letter I have written to DA had some complaining about Megami Tensei, soo:
GIMME PERSONA 2! |
Very interesting theory. I hadn't thought of it before, but it makes a lot of sense.
The art styles are almost entirely opposed - solid and colorful vs. pale and sketchy.
There's probably some further comparisons that could be made as to how the two artists'
opposing styles extend to the series they draw for, but I can't think of any at the
moment. Anybody else want to give it a try?
| Someone else with a lot to say about Dragon
Quest |
| Wazzzup? Just so you know, your predecessor has sent an attack squad
of Rabid Wombats after you.They go for the throat.
So...couple of things:
1.) One of your contributers mentioned that that in what other game does one get to be
in a beauty contest? Easy enough: FF7! Cross-dressing Cloud in his
bikini/lingerie/makeup/and what-not glory was definetly a beauty contest. Those with
enough fashion sense could actually win Cloud a night with the big guy himself. Creepy!
2.) Legend of Dragoon, hailed by more than a few sources as having some of the best
graphics of a console game ever, is a very intriguing title. I'd like to get it, but am
unsure about the quality of it's other aspects, like story, characters and gameplay.
What's your opinion of the game? I have limited resources, and I want to get the right
games this year.
Which leads me to my last question...
3.) You've already mentioned that you plan on buying every Square game between now and
FFIX. I plan on Chrono Cross, Vagrant Story, and FFIX, but I'm unsure about what else is
worthwhile. Any tips?
Insincerely,
---Spoon Guy
PS. Why is that well written on-topic letters are often passed over for the single
sentence hate letters or non-sensical rants in your column?
PPS. Gilgamesh is THE MAN? Puleeeze. Citan could whup Gilgi's many limbed butt. |
All I have to say regarding the attack wombats is: what makes you think Drew's even
still alive to send them? Next point.
Most of what I've read on Legend of Dragoon suggests that the graphics are great, but
the rest of the game is mediocre at best. It's maybe not a bad title, but with everything
else coming out, I'm gonna give it a miss. As I said before, I think Lunar 2 is worth
looking at, and maybe WA2.
Someone asked if I still got letters on the topic of THE MAN, well, here's your answer.
As for why some letters get printed and not others, I'll let our next contestant answer
that.
| Damned if you're long, damned it you're short |
| There are too many long letters. I try to read them, but they're really
long and I have a short attention span. You need to make the letters shorter. Summarize
them, or something. If you don't, then I'll be hurt and will feel bad. And then you'll
feel guilty. You don't want that, Chris, do you...? -Serial Bob |
I hope the two previous letters give you folks some idea of what's involved with
putting this column together. I'm not trying to get sympathy, but I do want people to
realize that I can't post every good letter I get, and I don't want to reduce the column
to 50 letters a day of "fF 7 iz gay!!!!!" The column has been running
comparatively long lately, but I'm sure once my initial burst of energy for the job wears
off, I'll start turning in hack jobs of one or two letters a day.
| Clearly delusional. Tsk, tsk. |
| I really ought to be doing that materials science homework that's due an
hour from now, but I just felt the need to write in. I'll admit I didn't care much for
Drew when he first replaced Allan (though I felt comfortable with him doing the DA column
after a week, and came to prefer him after a month), you're virtually everything bad about
letter columnists put together. I mean, at least we all know IGN sucks, and I don't give a
damn what they put up as their responses to letters anymore. Videogames.com has James
Milke, and if he says Klonoa is [one of] the greatest game of all time, I can't find fault
in any sort of bashing he does on the side. But YOU - tarnishing the name of The GIA for
all eternity... the taste in my mouth when I think of what you've done to the RPG
community is horrendous, beyond words. But let's stay on "topic". Just
looking at the lame excuses for points you made to the letters you recieved.
Link's Letter:
1) Graphics don't make a game. Heck, I'm preordering -- and I *never* preoder -- Chrono
Cross. And if there ever was an example of a good game with crappy graphics, CC is it.
Dragon Quest VII looks truly superb. You have no taste -- either that, or you still think
that DQVII is going to animate like DQ1.
[More follows, column editor cuts it here]
--Imad Hussain
(e)magius
PS Dragon Warrior VII (assuming an English release does appear this year), Chrono Cross
and Vagrant Story are the RPGs I'm going to be picking up in 2000. I might even get
Kouldelka if I can find it in the discount bin.
PPS I apologize for the length of this letter, but not for its contents. =D |
Normally I like to give everybody their full length, and keep your letters entirely
untouched. But in this case I think the general tone of the letter is made by the first
paragraph, and besides: Imad seems to think Chrono Cross has bad graphics compared to
Dragon Quest 7. I just don't think it's cool to argue with the mentally unstable.
| *Mark* vs. *Chris* Round Two! Fight! |
| Old school games kick. I have my NES hooked up to my TV right now. DW2 is
currently in it, with Super Mario Bros. 2 and Final Fantasy right next to it. I don't OWN
Pacman, but make sure to shove a buck in tokens in Ms. Pacman whenever I get to the local
arcade. I play an online Tetris game (www.Tetrinet.org ) nearly daily against friends
online. I still have a working Atari with 30+ games for it -- of course, the only ones I
bother with are River Raid and Defender cause those games rule. Heck, I just recently
found a copy of Zork 1, a classic text based game. I also play Nethack fairly regularly,
which is a pretty good roguelike game -- meaning that's based on Rogue, an old text based
dungeon explorer / RPGish game that uses ASCII characters to draw it's maze. I like to
say I'm an old school gamer. I wear it as sort of a badge of pride. I was there when a 16
Mb game was HUGE. I'll be there when the Dreamcast is thought of like the Atari is now.
That's not to say I'm boycotting the new systems or anything silly like that. My
Playstation and N64 are ready to be hooked right up to the VCR when I get the craving to
play them. It's just that I've found overall, games for the NES are more fun and more
challenging than games for the PSX or N64.
And that's why I play games. Not to watch a FMV. To PLAY. To have a challenging good
time. To get overwhelmingly frustrated at the darn thing and nearly throw the controller
through the TV. And with RPGs, to be immersed in struggles against good and evil -- to
have my mind stimulated while my skills are challenged. And DQ games have always done that
for me.
Yes -- you can upgrade games and keep their spirit. That's essentially what I was
saying -- DQ games have always built on the previous games while still keeping the DQ
spirit. Do I think DQ7 is going to be a clone of DQ5 or DQ6? No, of course not -- no more
than I expected FF7 to be a clone of FF6. That's not what I was trying to say. Rather,
what I was trying to say is that it's going to be a new game reminiciant of the previous
DQ games -- again, building on the foundations they layed down.
In reference to the FF series, it is kinda like including Chocobos, Cid, and Bahamut in
FF games. These are little things that are carried over from game to game each time. These
are things that MAKE a game part of a series. Especially with the DQ games, since they are
usually Trillogies. Dragon Quest 1, 2 and 3 -- the Roto series -- are all part of the same
world, in different times. Dragon Quest 2's main characters are the ancestors of the DQ 1
hero. The DQ3 hero is that legendary hero, given the holy name "Roto" on behalf
of his bravery. The Tenku (DQ 4, 5, and 6) trillogy go on a similar vein. They are all in
the same universe, during different times. DQ7 marks the beginning of the next DQ trillogy
-- the Eden Trillogy.
Would a Zelda game still be a Zelda game without the Triforce? Without the funny hat
and green clothes? Without the Master Sword? These are the Zelda traditions. The things
that make Zelda games ZELDA games. In the same vein, the DQ series has the Slimes, the DQ
Fight engine and the way the party walks on the screen.
DQ7 is a reinvention of the DQ series, just like DQ4 built on DQ3, and DQ3 built on
DQ2. They have always built on themselves, reinventing and evolving. This is what I've
been trying to say, in not so many words.
DQ 1-6 have been linear. Nearly totaly. DQ7, from all that I've heard, is not. You
start out on one little continent and move on from there, and depending on the order you
make the continents appear the game changes. Thus, multiple paths through the game appear
-- which surges up DQ7's replay value. This is one of the reinventions. The enemies in
battle now have ranks -- another improvment from previous DQ games. All of these are
changes in the original game's style, but still the original game idea is there. Even
though the enemies can now join up in ranks, they're still facing down the party in a menu
based fight engine.
Will DQ7 sell good in Japan? You can bet your Slime it will. Will everyone like it? I
can't promise that. I can promise that it will outsell FF9. The DQ series has ALWAYS
outsold the FF series in Japan. There's a reason FF9 was delayed when Square heard that
DQ7 was going to be released close to FF9 -- and it wasn't because of Square's
professional curtesy.
But we'll know on May 18th, it's confirmed release date. And over here in America we'll
know about it around Christmas 2000. That's when Enix of America is saying that Dragon
Warrior 7 will hit our shelves and with any luck it's American release won't be delayed.
One final reply to your reply... You say that the first stories about DQ7 were about
how DQ7 was going to be 3d, like the Final Fantasies. But do you think Enix wrote these
stories? No, of course not -- they were written by game magazines and gamers on the web,
and are just comments. "Oh, Like Square did with FF7, Enix is also making DQ7
3d."
Enix is not trying to follow in Square's footsteps. Rather, like always, they are
blazing their own path in the world of console RPGs and like always, they are catering to
their fans, and not their potential fans.
And that, my friend, is exactly why Enix has so many devoted fans -- because Enix is as
devoted to them as they are to Enix.
You yourself bring up an interesting point Chris -- exactly how long until DQ is in a
genre all it's own? How long until DQ looks like no other game on the market?
In closing, I'd like to bring this point up to you:
When did being one of a kind become a bad thing?
-- Mark Cantrell
The Knight in Tarnished Armor |
This letter is by far and away the longest I've ever printed, it's gonna be the longest
I'll ever print. I appreciate wanting to get everything out at once, but there's such a
thing as overkill. The above letter is nearly 1100 words long by wc's count, but from here
on out I'm making a limit of 500 words for a publishable letter. But this letter was sent
in prior to the cap, and it's as good a letter defending DQ as I've gotten today, so it
stays.
As to the actual content, I consider myself as old school a gamer as anyone under
twenty five can be. I still enjoy the occasional game of SMB2 or Bionic Commando, but it's
pretty obvious to me that both games were a result of the designers doing the best they
could with the technology of the time. I'm pretty sure both games would look and play a
lot differently if they were being made today, and so I feel it's kind of pointless to
make them out as some sort of high point of game design. The fact that you voluntarily
play the exceedingly lousy 2600 port of Defender makes me think it's as much a nostalgia
trip for you as anything else.
Maybe it's just a matter of preference, but I've never been challenged by playing an
RPG. Puzzles in the game might be challenging, but actually fighting random monsters ad
nauseam is just dull. (Rare RPGs like FFT are the exception, not the rule.) To explore and
to get a story are the only possible reasons I can see to play an RPG for - all other
combat in RPGs basically comes down to numbers: attack vs. defense, your MP vs. their HP,
average number of potions needed per battle vs. stockpiled potions. And I crunch numbers
for a living, I don't want to do it at home.
I think your final point hits the nail on the head. You can't be a genre of your own.
You can be an interesting curiosity, you can be the first game in a genre that spawns
others, but competing with and learning from other examples of a type is exactly what
being in a genre is about. Final Fantasy has improved markedly since it first stepped onto
the Playstation, and redefined the RPG genre in the process. Dragon Quest may be an
enjoyable game, but it hasn't had the time to develop that it should probably have by this
point, and it's from an entirely different mindset than what's now prevalent. You may
claim that you prefer that mindset, but until the public gets to play and make its own
decision, it's all academic. I expect to still be here when the reviews start coming in,
and we can resume the argument then.
| Common answers, but good ones |
| Chrono Cross is at the top of my list. Chrono Trigger was the first RPG I
ever played, so it has a special place in my heart. I've always wanted a follow-up, and
it's about time we got it. The characters all look very cool (ignore the sketches, they
don't do them justice... the CG models are fabulous), the settings are very detailed and
colorful, and from the few tracks I've heard, the soundtrack is simply awesome. Despite
it's 30-hour play time, it sounds like it has oodles of replay, with all the branching
paths and 40 characters. Lunar 2: Eternal Blue is another one I'm really looking
forward to. I liked basically every aspect of Lunar: SSSC... I never once got bored with
it. EB looks great, and I hear it's even better than Lunar, which makes me want it even
more.
Arc the Lad Colletion and Growlanser are also titles I'm thinking about, but they don't
really have that high a priority at the moment. I'm basically having the opposite problem,
I can't really think of games I want. Vagrant Story is one of the
not-really-an-RPG-though-people-may-claim-it-is games that I'm looking forward to, but
there isn't much else. I'm just waiting for the Metal Gear Solid 2 for PS2 announcement...
-CTZanderman
Oh yeah, I somehow forgot FF9. Silly me. That game looks great. |
Totally forgot about Arc, but it could be good. As for the rest, a lot of people seem
to be in agreement, so I'm putting this up just as a general indicator of what people are
interested in.
Closing Comments:
Long, long column. No topic for tomorrow, let's just see if we can have something a
little lighter and less confrontational. Have a good one, folks.
-Chris Jones, who fears marketing/lawyer hybrids |
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