Bite the wax tadpole -
August 9, 2001 - Chris Jones
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed
within this column are those of the participants and the
moderator, and do not necessarily reflect those of the
GIA. There is coarse language and potentially offensive
material afoot.
Where's some Coke II... er, Pepsi B, when you really need it?
Don't say we didn't warn you.
Wow.
Honestly, it wasn't until I let Andrea and Tami take over for a week that I realized how incredibly dull I am in comparison. But too bad, there's nothing that can be done about it: I'm back and you'll just have to deal with the situation.
For a little while longer, at least.
*cue ominous foreshadowing music*
Onward.
T&A have fangirl tendencies? Really? |
Hey Chris!
Welcome back! As you might know, it's been fanboy- and especially fangirl-field day since you were gone, so you might as well throw all pretense of shame, embarrassment and good taste aside and drool over your most loved one in the world of games. He. It wouldn't be fair if WE were the only ones to make fools out of ourselves. Hey, while we're at it, why don't you ask the entire staff to write in!
Now for the actual topic. I think books COULD actually be converted to games pretty well. I don't think you could literally convert most novels, because of the interactivity element, but you could pretty well base a game on one. Take for instance The Dark Tower by Stephen King. It's a fascinating environment, and you could actually switch between that world and ours at certain times in the story. I think it shouldn't be an RPG but an action-adventure, though. It might have Gunslinger's kind of atmosphere... yeah. But I'm rambling.
Hmmmmmm... The Dark Tower... My only weak spot...
Sir Farren, nihil sanctum est.
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There was the potential for a feature much like you describe a while back: each member of the site was supposed to write an entry for their favorite "not classically attractive video game character". In other words, everybody would pick out a character who wasn't designed to be drop dead gorgeous, but who that staffer found cool or sexy anyway; no Callo Merlose, but Mint and Chu Chu were acceptable.
My own pick was Agrias from FFT, and I'd go find what I wrote about her right now if it didn't mean unearthing email from 2 computers ago. More than that I won't say, since I could get in big trouble for revealing the odd little quirks and fetishes near and dear to the hearts of the GIA staff.
Although, in retrospect, not as much trouble as I've gotten myself into by absentmindedly referring to Tami and Andrea as "T&A". No need for retaliatory violence, ladies; Princess Jemmy is heating up the hot iron slivers to shove under my fingernails for "not showing proper respect to the fairer sex" as we speak.
More stuff on fantasy women |
Okay, I hope I'm not TOO late with this one...
Anyway, one thing that occurred to me with the whole "characters you
lust for" topic is how many people once thought it was silly (or still
do). On the other hand, more traditional objects to lust after - say,
the centerfold in Playboy or Penthouse - are just about as fictional,
relative to you, the luster. The only difference is somewhere,
somehow, there's a woman or man who, after makeup and some airbrushing
of a photo, looks like the thing you're looking at.
Whereas with fictional characters, you're at least admitting it's
total fantasy from the beginning. As long as it stays a fantasy and
doesn't become some kind of obsession to you, I'd say one is no worse
than the other. Just remember, as you search for a significant other
in your life, few people have naturally green hair and magical powers.
;)
Damien Wellman (Skid)
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True, but this whole topic gets into murky territory that I'd just as soon not get in to. If actual physical proximity is a judge for healthiness in a relationship, does that mean going to a strip club is more wholesome than looking at the Lunar bromides? Does this mean that there's no practical difference between the Playmate who's an attraction at a big-name game developer, vs. the booth babes reduced to dressing in ridiculous attire off to the sides? Is Aeris's sweet and wholesome image really any less of a calculated ploy than the jiggling of Dead or Alive? Don't you love everything Pearl Jam's ever recorded? Isn't George Wendt a star? And what's with CDs these days: why do they have to be shrink-wrapped and have that annoying sticker at the top that prevents you from opening it?
These questions are why I steer clear of all this stuff. Some things are best left unconsidered, truly.
Necromancy and the PS2, together at last! |
Chris! Hi. Interesting topic. I try not to write in, so I'm gonna keep
this short (I bloody well hope). There's a book written by Garth Nix called
"Sabriel." I'm sure you've heard of it. Or if you haven't, you should read
it, despite it's young adult categorization. Anyhow, it's one of the better
fantasy books I've read, as very few of the fantasy books I've picked up
interest me.
"Sabriel" (and perhaps its sequel, which was released just recently) would
translate to a PS2 era video game very nicely, I should think. It's full of
interesting characters, Sabriel, Mogget, Touchstone, the Clayr, etc, etc,
etc. Oh, I don't know; I'm sure that those who've read the book will
understand what I mean.
~nezu would have to go classic vincent valentine for her guy. or maybe gau.
teehee.
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Getting a bit more into serious topic mode, this is part of the reason why most books-to-games wouldn't work; it's all something of a niche market, even for hugely monstrous sellers like Snow Crash. I like Bruce Sterling's Shaper/Mechanist stuff, for example, but I'm not sure how many other people would, even if they knew who he was.
That being the case, it'd almost be better for such adaptations to work as add-ons to existing reality creation engines, like Neverwinter Nights, so that the faithful could try it out without having to build a game from scratch... assuming, of course, that the author in question would be interested in having their work translated into game form in the first place.
Being there |
Hey, Chris, welcome back. *flees in terror*
Books as games, eh? Well, it's certainly been tried, on the PC anyway. One of the first games I ever played was this gawdawful "Lord of the Rings" game. It basically was just a bunch of random characters that kinda looked like Tolkien's characters (but this was on a 386 so how the heck could you tell?) running around and fighting, and you couldn't even control the battles, so you just got your pixellated butts kicked again and again and again, no matter how powerful you were. Fortunately it didn't turn me off of gaming forever. (Came close, though.)
But then, how in the world do you make something like that into a game that people would want to play in the first place? If you wanted to preserve even a fraction of the characterization and description that the books had, you'd have to make the game many CDs long and/or cut some scenes out of the final product. And then you'd have to figure out a way to incorporate some kind of action and control in there, making it a game instead of a movie where you push a couple of buttons now and then. It could theoretically be done, but I'm sure that many Tolkien fans would hate it anyway, because their favorite character didn't look or sound like they imagined (s)he would, or their favorite scene/place was cut, or something like that.
That's the problem with basing games on published books. With games, you have to see (and maybe hear) the characters to play the game (duh). With books, you get to use your imagination, and I know from experience that sometimes when books are carried over to movies or games, you just end up thinking something like, "No, damn it! Piter de Vries does not look like that!" or "Hey! You screwed up the sandworms! Losers!"
Now, basing a game on a series of books but creating an original plot within the book's universe, that can be pretty good. Betrayal at Krondor was done that way; the people at Sierra (or Dynamix, actually) went to Raymond E. Feist and asked him to help them make a game in his Riftwar universe that plays like one of his books. He agreed, and what they ended up with was a game that was based off of his books, that didn't feel like a pale imitation of a book but like a story in its own right. It had characters that grew as the game progressed, it had a plot that didn't do too badly with keeping you guessing, and it was faithful to the series' universe without being dull. That's my opinion, and judging from the awards that the game won back in 1994, I'm not the only one who liked it.
(Incidentally, Feist's released a book called "Krondor: The Betrayal," and from what I've read of it, it's based on the game. A book based on a game? What a concept.)
So, in summary: It's hard to base games off of published books, especially popular books, without pissing someone in the fanbase off. But basing games on books can be good, especially if you have the author's help.
- Wallwalker
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The thing is, different books are after largely different things, from a narrative standpoint, some of which translate really well to epic, cinematic RPG format, and some of which don't. Consider, say, Michael Swanwick's Stations of the Tide or Iron Dragon's Daughter: both of these take place in fascinating, spectacular worlds that I'd love to experience more directly, and they're not without their share of action and adventure, but neither one has much of what RPGs do really well: exploration, interaction, and lots of combat. There's a lot of sword and sorcery fantasy that would translate well (almost too well), but there's also a lot of fantasy that relies on palace intrigue and political maneuverings that wouldn't. Figuring out how to actually do stuff within the fictional world, or even what that world will look like is just the tip of the iceberg if you also have to figure out what's worth doing there in the first place.
And, as you point out, series (which tend to be epic in and of themselves) fit slightly better into games; I'd extend that to say that books in general don't fit into games as well as long-arc TV shows do, like Babylon 5. A game there could be a large side story of the series proper, or if someone was feeling really ambitious with an engine, a series in and of itself. Consider that many anime series manage to go a long, long way in only 20 or 30 half-hour episodes, so how much more could, say, Kojima do with an espionage game set up as a series of 50 hour-long missions/episodes?
Just what every DA needs: a half-naked woman clinging to his side |
Chris! As per instructed . . . we missed you! *attaches herself to the
Double Agent's leg ala badly bimbo-ified Dark Luna to the Magic Emperor*
You know I always thought that if they made Lunar fashion dolls. . . .
Ghaleon's final outfit would also have to be packaged with a small
plastic clip-on Luna to stick on him. Like that Snarf straw-holder
McDonald's or whatever was giving out back in the 80s when people still
cared about the environment, world peace, and Thunder Cats. . . .
Anyway.
Since the time I read them way the hell back in junior high I've thought
Brian Jacques' Redwall stories would make excellent RPGs with
wide-ranging appeal. Sure, all the characters are rodents and other
woodland fuzzies, but fuzzies, mind you, that strap on plate mail and
bust out legendary swords and whatnot for assorted valorous quests into
exotic territories. And let's face it. . . . Martin, Matthias and
Mattimeo were ideal RPG figureheads, minus the increasingly necessary
(and nauseating) angst factor, even if they were freakin' mice. The
villains were kewl, also. If you're a small field mouse, accompanied by
maybe a couple moles and squirrels with pikes and slings, can you
imagine how much more menacing a megalomaniacal lynx would be than . . .
say . . . Ultimecia?
Sure, it would be a very western story and setting and lack some of the
eastern-influenced goodness the "entrenched" set (including myself) is
so in love with, but imagining Jacques' worlds realized in some way
stylistically similar to something the FFT/VS team would turn out makes
me salivate. The nifty, intricately detailed midieval world as seen by
the inhabitants of the forest's floor. The perspective alone would
make the environment interesting. And all the people who keep
bitching about the encroaching sci-fi element in their traditionally
sword-and-sorcery-dominated games would have one less thing to keep them
awake at night.
Okay . . . I think this qualifies as overlong, now. I'll go. Tell Tami
and Andrea I'm really sorry for not contributing to the lusty orgies
they presided over in your absence . . . I could have drooled at length
over Flik, Sydney, et al with them. But unfortunately the real thing
occupies a lot of my time. Damn, but it sucks to be stuck in a
relationship with a flesh-and-blood man . . . Well. At least mine's a
swordsman. That always helps. Mmmmm. . . . swordsmen. . . .
~Zedelia
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Actually, there's few franchises I can think of that would adapt as well to an MMORPG format than Redwall; I haven't read many of the books, but the ones I have read strike me as something that could support dozens or hundreds of simultaneous heroes and quests, without doing any damage to a central mythology or demanding some sort of central conflict that everybody had to pay attention to. Like the Harry Potter series, they're well targeted towards younger kids, and considering how steep a learning curve most RPGs have these days, it's not a bad idea to have a starting point for people to get into the genre... and if it doesn't suck quite as hard as Mystic Quest, so much the better.
Remember, the gate is down |
Ender's Game + Hideo Kojima = Heaven (or a reasonable facsimile thereof.)
----The Jabberwock
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I dunno... Kojima seems to be cut out for something a little more hard edged, I think. Ender's Game has a fair number of intense scenes, but the meat of any game made out of it would likely be the Battle Room simulations, which wouldn't give Kojima's ingenuity much room to play out. More than that, it's arguable that somebody like Kojima might be better used developing his own, original scenarios than working in somebody else's playground.
And, of course, Kojima's already been talked about in the context of a Matrix game; he might not be on board with the project, but that's the kind of work he'd be better suited to.
More problems with those wacky Russians |
...but some things you just need to be aware of, y'know? Pravda.RU Video game
killed 6 teenagers
I swear, parents looking for an excuse have got to start choosing their
scapegoats a lot more carefully...
- Water Buffalo
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By this point, I'm pretty tired of seeing stuff like this: no, parents shouldn't scapegoat games for whatever problems their kids are having (and things are plenty violent enough in Russia without games) but complaining about it won't do much good either. On the other hand, the delightfully broken English of this piece made me want to write my own response in kind:
Locking fantasy is a large play, with a deep respect for the life. Nobody, which was not already suicidal, would be terminated because of it. The fact that a process leaves me to be thought simply there is a very hungry politician is archived out there and not a genuine threat to everyone to security. End of history.
It's ok, it's ok, the bad people are gone now... |
I missed you,
Those two girls turned the letter column into a porn festival. I'm not
tryin' to come here to read about Sydney and Hardin gettin' their gyrations
on. "Who do you lust over?" "What male on male couples would you like to
see?" Blagh! So I'm glad we have someone back in the saddle who's as
uncomfortable with Ashleys exposed nether regions as I.
Gilbert, he who wonders why all RPGs use trap doors as major plot points
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I'm a long way from being a fan of Sydney/Hardin/Flick/Victor yaoi, but other than that, Andrea and Tami did a truly great job. Not to take anything away from all the other people that have covered for me in the past, but what they did was a real breath of fresh air, and a great way of reenergizing the column. I'm thankful they were able to cover for me on relatively short notice, and they're welcome back any time.
Closing Comments:
I'm back, but topics won't pick up again until next week, so send in whatever's on your mind for tomorrow. Until then.
-Chris Jones, gets 90 hectares on a single tank of kerosene
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