At the movies -
July 14, 2001 - Nich Maragos
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed
within this column are those of the participants and the
moderator, and do not necessarily reflect those of the
GIA. There is coarse language and potentially offensive
material afoot.
I wish I was hardboiled.
Don't say we didn't warn you.
My pre-release thoughts on the FF movie were kind of weird. I was pretty down on it after the first trailer, and as certain plot details--collecting the eight spirits, fending off an alien invasion--came out, I couldn't decide whether the movie was hewing too close to its FF roots or straying too far away, and I had no idea which idea I would like less.
Eventually, though, my expectations got so low that they kind of looped around the other side and became high again. My reasoning was something like "Well, it's going to be terrible. So if it has even one or two redeeming elements, I'll be impressed. And since they'd have to be much more incompetent than is humanly possible not to have one or two redeeming elements ... I'm fairly guaranteed to be impressed. So it'll be good! I can't wait!"
But enough about that; now the movie's been released and we can talk about some opinions based on an actual viewing of the movie. There are spoilers in here strong enough to choke an elephant, so if you haven't seen the movie yet skip down to the closing comments and tomorrow's topic, which I feel somewhat strongly about.
Dry bones |
Hi, I have to say that Im totally ashamed of your review of FF:TSW. You failed to point out anything worthy of giving that movie a low '3' (wich I consider to be a somewhat low score)... That movie is awesome.
"...it's a good bet that the awkwardness found here will develop into a more sure-footed and imaginative approach in future reviews.."
FF:TSW isnt perfect, but in my opinion it doesn't have his share of shortcomings, it has some, but they are minors, and easy to forgive.
"Viewers can easily guess at the answers to this and other questions, but they're the sort of thing that the movie should have made clear."
Yeah, of course, because you couldn't put on your brain to think about it. It also seems that you failed to turn it on to type your review. So, a pretty good film = 3 ? Very clear, indeed.
Shame on you!
-Quezacolt
PS: People, go see it and make your own opinion =)
|
Some people seemed to think my review would have better if I had left all the "opinion" parts out of it. So here goes.
Final Fantasy is a CG animated movie about a postapocalyptic world ravaged by mysterious monsters known as Phantoms. It runs for 108 minutes and stars the vocal talents of Ming Na, Donald Sutherland, Alec Baldwin, James Woods, Ving Rhames, Peri Gilpin, and Steve Buscemi. It is rated PG (Parental Guidance) for violence.
Well?
Back for more |
Well let me just say hi again, assholes.
First off, I don't understand why you gave Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within
a 3. This movie IMO, was a masterpiece. Working off of themes employed by
FFVII, I found many of the scenes to be touching. An example of this would be
when General Hein allowed Phantoms to infiltrate Barrier City, and New York
fell to the invaders. Then later on, after Jane and Neil and that black
Barrett wannabe died, Gray and Aki sat silently in the space ship. The
silence, suddenly broken by Aki's sobs tore at my heart. Fuck you Nich, if
you think I'm a pussy. I found that scene to be touching. When Gray went over
to console her, and then the whole kissing bit happened..I found that to be
meaningful. The history behind the Phantoms was very interesting, and I found
the dream concerning the past of the Phantoms, which was told throughout the
movie, to be very interesting. It shows that other intelligent beings are
capabale of war, besides humans. The Gaia spirits also drew me in. It made me
feel that everything in life is delicate and should be cherished. You idiots
who gave it a 3 were probably more interested in finding the bottom of the
popcorn bucket, than the movie itself. I am disgusted with your ratings. I am
sure an occasional person out there will agree that The Spirits Within was
well done. True, some parts of the movie were cliche, but this IS a Final
Fantasy related film. Final Fantasy is known for its cliches. What the fuck
did you want Nich, something up to par with Hannibal or something? Try
looking into this movie and analyzing it. I myself was enlightened.
Let me just end this off by saying Chris, you're a cocksucker and I hope you
get hit by a van.
-Bye ^_^ (Mr. Bye)
|
... Hannibal? Odd movie to pick as a pinnacle of film quality; I thought it was much poorer than, say, FF: TSW.
I'll allow that some moments were touching. The scene you cited is an example, as is Aki's recounting of the little girl who held the fifth spirit. I genuinely didn't see that coming, and it was probably the moment when I finally felt like Aki was really taking her quest seriously. I even liked Sid's quiet little line "It's warm," though I couldn't tell you why.
The thing is, I don't see how that invalidates some of the criticism I brought to bear against it. A few moments do not a great movie make--they make a good movie, and that's what I think FF: TSW is. A good movie. Not really good, not great, not bad, not awful. It's just a good movie--a 3, on our scale.
And that van comment? If Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within taught you that all life is delicate and should be cherished, the lesson didn't seem to take very well.
Concatenation |
Hey Nichron!
The movie SUCKED! It was a piece of GARBAGE!* I've picked off better things from my SHOE! Here's why.
1. No swords, castles, or dragons!
2. No Chocobos or Moogles either!
3. People don't hold and touch objects like they should!
4. It's CID, not SID!
5. The Earth is filled with molten magma, not Gaia!
6. Voices and lips don't quite match!
7. Neil's voice was annoying! I heard it was by the guy who played the bum in Big Daddy (or was it Scary Movie? I can't remember)!
8. It's not supposed to be set on Earth, Goddammit!
9. That whole thing about the spirits and wavelengths was confusing and had too many holes in it!
10. They didn't show Aki's boobs! Not even a little cleavage!
11. Hein sucks compared to Kefka!
12. It was too short!
-Kung Fu Dude, who dares you to decode this secret message: Secret Arcade Rotating Cucumber Assigned to Simulate Masturbation
*Say it so it rhymes with "mirage"
|
I could have printed three or four other letters against the movie, but I felt this one summed them all up pretty well. Right on, Kung Fu Dude.
And why does everyone keep saying there weren't any chocobos in the movie? You all just weren't looking hard enough.
Music, please! |
Well...I saw the movie, and I enjoyed the movie experience, but it
certainly isn't a very good movie. Just worth seeing. Especially for a lot
of amusing little tidbits.
The first one is near the beginning, at that scene where "Captain" has to
get pulled up by one of the other people in order to escape the phantoms.
Now, what's funny about this is how they play it out as being a hypertense
situation with some sort of speedy beat and then when his hand gets gripped
and he gets pulled up there's this sweeping orchestral score. The problem
being that the scene lasts for all of 2 seconds. There was nothing tense
about it. Thats some cinematic bumbling.
Then there's the random desire to not allow Gray to say "son of a bitch"
when he goes berserk and starts attacking the crab/spider/phantom. Earlier
the two comic relief people had already had their fun saying shit. So why
can't Gray say bitch?
And finally, there was the last bit of dialogue spoken by Dr. Sid. "Oh,
it's warm." That's the BEST. Not only is it the last thing that you will
here after watching this movie, but his inflection makes it sound like he
had some sort of preconcieved notion that this goo would be cold. Alas, he
was proven wrong, it was WARM. Im sure there were a lot more funny things.
But this was way too fucking long.
-Brian
|
I could kick myself for not mentioning the movie's apallingly intrusive score in the review, thanks for bringing it up. Glad to know I'm not the only one who cringed in my seat when that little music sting kicked in with all the subtlety of a pie in the face. Whatever you may say about Uematsu's relative quality of late, at least he isn't pulling stuff like that.
Standing out |
It's all about Sid. Best character graphics, best voice, best lines.
-Fares
|
Myself, I'd give that one to General Hein. I found it interesting that the most sympathetic character for most of the audience, the one who shared their viewpoints, was the villain. Whenever the talk about Gaia and nature and spirits within got too gooey, they smartly brought Hein in as a counterpoint. Plus he had that great trenchcoat!
Granted, he wasn't the brightest bulb around. When he said something to the effect of "No living being could pass through the bioetheric streams and survive!" I found myself wondering if had forgotten about their ability to pass through solid matter, or if that was something everyone could do in the FF: TSW world.
Know thy enemy |
Hey Nich,
I was noticing people bitching about your FF:TSW review, so I figured I'd
bring this to the collective attentions of you and your audience: a
scathing review on Slashdot. JonKatz obviously went into the movie
expecting something much different.
The review has problems obviously. Firstly, I never once noticed that the
voices were out of sync with the mouths; I think Katz wanted to see that
though. He can't get past the fact that this is all computer animation (even
though that makes the Phantoms much more believable IMO; you accept more
radical things when its in an animated movie rather than a live-action one).
Katz penalizes the movie for having lots of "spirit mumbo-jumbo" when CTHD
was much more heavy-handed with its spiritual tones.
"The overall affect is cold and fake." Besides the slight error in that
sentence (yeah nitpicky I know), I wouldn't call it fake any more than any
other animation, and the effect seems meant to be cold, in any case.
And more nitpicky: the movie doesn't take place mostly in a destroyed NYC;
it's a rebuilt NYC with a barrier around it.
Bleh, JonKatz spews a lot of crap in any case (as those who read slashdot
may know). I think this is the first movie he ever hated, aside from Mission
to Mars.
-Chris G
|
And there was a great wailing and gnashing of teeth by your humble letters columnist. Jon Katz is the reason I stopped reading Slashdot so long ago; until you brought him up again, I'd managed to block out his existence. I'm generally of the opinion that he's so far off-base about ... well, almost everything that his condemnation of a movie is kind of like hearing it officially denounced by a mental ward patient who saw it when it was beamed through the governmental implants in his skull.
Mainstream U.S.A. |
I'd say that your review of Final Fantasy: The Spirit
Within is fairly accurate. However, I think that you
should have emphasized one point related to the plot:
We got what we wanted. We wanted a Final Fantasy
story and we got it. There are no Mogs, Chocobos,
Swords, or Mages but the story feels like Final
Fantasy.
When the first video trailer came out people said: O
no, Square is doing a "mainstream" science fiction
film and naming it Final Fantasy. Well, we were
wrong. The story feels like the story of an RPG and
they pull it off fairly well. They managed to present
a very Japanese story in an American film without
making us (FF fans) look bad in the eyes of the world.
We should be glad. It could have been much worst. At
least the movie doesn't suck. I believe that everyone
who understood the plot must have appreciated the
movie.
-Juan Rivera
|
You don't have to "believe" such a thing--you can go right on over to a site like Rotten Tomatoes or Check the Grid for lots of reviews by major mainstream outlets all in one place. And unfortunately, the facts of the matter indicate that lots of people who did understand the plot didn't appreciate the movie, to understate things. I don't think it deserved the hate that so many people leveled against it, but it's out there.
Weak supports |
I read your review of Spirits Within and agreed and disagreed with your opinion. Which is what is so great about films, everybody sees them differently.
Some background on myself, I'm a professional sci-fi/fantasy screenwriter. I'm not saying I'm the perfect judge, nor am I saying that my opinion matters to anyone but me ... but that I have some film background. oh, and I've played all the final fantasy games, except 2j and 3j.
The movie did have it's flaws, but I did not think they were as severe as others did. I personally liked the characters. Yes ... Neil, Jane, and Ryan were not fully developed. But then again, they were supporting characters. There was some fire between Neil and Jane that made up for that however, and I really liked their diolouge ... except in a few places. Gray, was not as developed as he needed to be. The thing is, there were some moments with Gray that his facial expressions, tone of voice, and actions that made me believe there was more to him. But again, he was no where near Cloud, Locke, or Squall like he should have been. Aki ... I fell in love with. Tifa and Celes have now moved down to 2nd and 3rd as my favorite female characters. I thought that none of the character flaws were THAT bad. I enjoyed them, even if I only fell in love with one character when I should have loved them all. (I want to be in the Deep Eyes so badly)
Anyway, I will finally get to the point. I loved the movie, but would have given the movie a 4, but I can see why you would give it a 3. Some of my final fantasy friends gave it a 5, while others gave it as low as a 2. My advice to people is to see the movie, judge for yourself and accept it for what it is. A sci-fi/fantasy movie. Yes it is sci-fi/fantasy, but so are all the games. Think about it, the moon and big whale in 4, magi-tek armor in 6, etc. I thought it was a good starting point for square movies. I can't wait to see their next film, I'm sure they will take what they learned here and improve upon it. One day we will see a sci-fi/fantasy film when the oscar for best picture. (I hope)
Anyway, this is already too long and like my other letters, won't be posted. I'd still like to know what you think about my opinion though.
-Chris
|
Several people wrote in to say that it's okay for the three background Deep Eyes members not to have any character development, because they were just background. Okay, but keep in mind that there were seven named characters in the movie, of which they were almost half. If you've seen Atlantis, there's a great scene where it goes through the basic history and development of five background mercenaries one after the other, right down the line. Takes about three minutes of screen time, but you feel like you know them better when it's over--and as a result, you care a little more about them later in the movie. I don't think it's a lot to ask to flesh characters out ... or to cut them. Ask yourself, would the movie have suffered terribly without them? Could it have used time which focused on them, to whatever small degree, in order to sew up a hole or two in the plot? Either keep them there as real human beings or get rid of them is all I'm asking, but the movie didn't really do either.
The proper perspective |
Good review, but the characters DID have last names. (Aki Ross, Grey Edwards,
Neil Fleming, etc.) its just that most weren't said on film. Who cares
anyway? Last names are hardly mentioned in the game, and its not like this
makes the movie bad.
It seems to me that you're writing this review as a Final Fantasy veteran,
not a movie viewer, which is how you should be reviewing it, otherwise you're
expecting too much from the movie. Besides, Square isn't advertising the
movie as a movie based on Final Fantasy, their advertising it as a
post-apocalyptic adventure, presented entirely in full, realistic CG.
And it seemed to me that the voice actors did a perfect job on their
characters, and that the characters themselves have plenty of personality.
That's all. I would have given it a 4 myself.
-3rd
|
Actually, I was writing it as a movie viewer who happened to know a lot about the franchise from whence it came. (I was also writing it based solely on information presented in the movie, which is why I didn't list the last names I was aware of; nor did I let it get off on some plot holes with the excuse that I could have made up explanations myself.) If I had written it as a Final Fantasy veteran, the score probably would have been higher, because it does more for people familiar with the series than it would for someone going into the movie expecting exactly what you described it as: a post-apocalyptic adventure rendered in etc.
Which it isn't, really. It's been said elsewhere that it's really an animated film that, for all intents and purposes, is from Japan--which makes it an anime at heart. This is reinforced by things such as Hein's somewhat cartoonish villain (that cape! that sneer!), the emphasis on Eastern spirituality, and the not-quite-Asian, not-quite-Caucasian character design. It holds up much better in my opinion if this is the way you approach the film, as the world's prettiest (and one of the world's most coherent) anime space epic.
Putting words in their mouths |
Seeing that you're going to head up the column tommorow, here's a few
questions: 1) What the hell was Square thinking? Yes, TSW has graphic
brilliance and state-of-art computer animation that is so realistic you can
see acne. But, first of all, when was Square ever intent on realism?
Personally, I'd have been more satisfied with a cartoony FF movie, kind of
like FF9, rather than something like FF8.
Now, don't get me wrong, I don't hate sci-fi elements in FF - I found
FF7 and FF8 to be refreshing, with spaceships and the like, and you have to
take some leaps once in a while to know where you're going. But when I read
in the FF review that the plot is a sci-fi rehash, and on Access Hollywood,
it's stated that "the dialogue is stuttering and laughable", I thought: did
Square really head up this project? When has FF, despite its older games,
ever had terrible dialogue and rehashed plots? Every FF has a very insightful
plot that has nothing to do with sci-fi and more to do with emotion and
non-tangible issues. I haven't seen the movie yet, but it sounds like
Hollywood got the best of them. No wonder all the Square execs are sweating
and praying that this movie doesn't tank - if they were so sure, they
wouldn't be worried.
-Gunstarheroz
|
Yes, Square really did head up the project and yes, FF has occasionally featured some clunkers in its dialogue and plot. It's just a lot easier to overlook them when they're text on a screen and you can imagine the characters intoning them in just the right manner so that they sound much better. I certainly don't mean to imply that all FF dialogue has been unrealistic, just that it has indeed been spotty in places before.
That said, the writers on the project, Al Reinert and Jeff Vintar, are American screenwriters who have never been associated with the games. If it makes you feel better, blame any dialogue error you're angry about on them--although I didn't find the dialogue lacking in too many respects save for that awful, awful introductory voiceover.
A Final Fantasy review ... that isn't a 5? |
It's kind of strange to see a site like The GIA, which is generally an outpost for gamers that like FF, give a movie so blatantly based on FF such an apathetic review. After seeing Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within, I can't understand how anybody that has enjoyed the current half of the FF series can't atleast mildly appreciate the movie. This realization didn't come while I was watching the movie, but shortly after it was done, and everything was just there to analyze, I noticed something interesting (but not surprising) about the movie. It seems to me that most of everything in the movie, including characters, is based on something from FF 5 through 8 (can't speak for 9, haven't played it yet). I see the most resemblance to FF6 and 7.
First, you start with Aki, Deep Eyes, and the technology. It all resembles FF6. Aki is almost a carbon copy of Terra/Tina, except her curse is being infected with the phantom thing, and she is obviously the lead of the story, and happens to be female. Deep Eyes really resembles any standard FF soldier group, but let's make it easy and also compare it to FF6. Then, there's the technology..FF6 had machines that somehow used magic, and the movie had machines that somehow detected ghosts and guns that somehow shot ghosts. You can sort of say that the meteor thing that brought the aliens was a little like FF5's, but the whole spirit collection thing reminded most of the crystals, and I attribute that most to FF5, but that could use some work.
There is, however, more of an obvious resemblance to FF7. The biggest being the Gaia thing (Lifeforce?), then the idea of a city attempting to survive in a wasteland of a planet (Midgar?). If that wasn't enough, there's the big Zues Cannon that will destroy the Earth if it keeps being fired (Sister Ray?) and the almost identical ending (what was with that "it's warm.." thing?). I was sort of torn between FF7 and FF8 concerning who General Hein resembles. As a villain in a 2 hour movie, he didn't get much attention, but he still manages to resemble something in FF. I first thought it was Rufus, but it's actually Seifer. He has the same ego and personality that Seifer does, is a militaristic person, a violent person, and just winds up screwed in the head(I found something interesting about that suicide scene). The bigger FF8 influence was the Tear's Point type of alien infestation. Granted, Tear's Point was sort of lame, but angry, dead ghosts of aliens crashing on Earth is like a refined version of it.
Finally, the characters in general, while not given enough time to fall in love with, were still pretty respectable, especially the Neil/Jane thing...shallow, but a bit of a touching end to that. Token Black Guy (I can't even remember his name) could've used more depth, though. There's still the whole love theme to deal with, but that issue has become such a commodity in FF that it's hard to compare it to any one title. I think these comparisons are still open for discussion, but I still wonder how people that enjoyed all this stuff in the games can't atleast appreciate that it's all been collaborated into one interesting movie.
-BurpingCat
|
Fun game, but it seems to me that most of what's in the movie can be traced back to Final Fantasy VII. (Perhaps unsurprisingly so, since they went into production at roughly the same time.) Both the Phantoms and Jenova came to the planet via meteor. Aki had the Phantom cells within her, Cloud had his Jenova cells. Gray discovers vital secrets within Aki's mind, as does Tifa with Cloud. Hein was threatening the world with the Zeus Cannon, Rufus was threatening the world with his Sister Ray. Both movie and game end in a strikingly similar image of the spirits rising up in a sort of inverted tornado form. Both movie and game featured ruined futuristic cities. And so on.
As for Ryan, as soon as I saw him under the wreckage of the jeep that great Warren Ellis line from Planetary flashed into my mind: "The black guy always dies in science fiction movies!"
Letter theory |
Alright, I know you're going to be flooded with all sorts of emails about the Final Fantasy motion picture, so I've decided to give you a bit of a break with my letter.
Now, I'll try my best to turn this into a "Dear Abby" column...
I really want to congradulate the DA writers for being such gentlemen. I myself do a letter column for a website that I own (a fairly popular Final Fantasy dot-com fansite), and I generally label at least 25% of the letter writers "idiots" or "morons". The "Mailbag" is still one of the most popular features of the site, despite the controversy and arrogance on my part.
In your humble opinion, do you think its fair to mock people when they deserve it? I'd say that many of my readers come just to see the mocking take place. I think I'm addicted to being a jackass, and so are my readers. What should I do? Can anything that feels this good be wrong?
-Signed, Kefka (actually, some arrogant webmaster PRETENDING to be Kefka).
P.S. If you feel the urge to pen a silly response, at least try to hide something serious in there somewhere. Thanks. The GIA rocks, etc, etc.
|
It's pretty easy to lay off, actually. I just don't have the heart to really tear into people the way some others can--despite what you'll occasionally read here, I'm never quite as admirably vicious as some of my forebears. I'm not all that interested in bashing the flamers, anyway, because of the principles behind my work on the column. I think that gaming is neither trivial nor insignificant, and I think there are a lot of important things to talk about in the field. This means my columns can be a little dry, sometimes. It's rare that I'll post an off-topic or silly letter, let alone host a free topic day. I just think there's so many interesting unexplored avenues within gaming that any time I spend on detractors or raving lunatics desperate to look "insane!!!" is less time to get to the really important stuff. That's all.
Closing Comments:
The above is not your topic.
This is your topic: While I was out getting Bomberman Tournament, I also picked up the premiere issue of GameGO! magazine. Longtime readers of this column will remember something of a small feud between us and the former editors of GameFan over Final Fantasy VIII, which I'm not particularly interested in continuing. After all, to judge them or anyone based on what they thought of a game or other piece of media is silly.
Let me repeat that: I want to make absolutely, one hundred percent, crystal clear that this is not a personal attack based on anything GameGO! wrote about any game. It's something that I consider a bit more serious than that. Here's an excerpt from GameGO! near the back of the magazine, where they talk about why they're in business.
What you're holding in your hands represents the first step in taking things back to the gamers and away from the casual users, sheeple, and mainstream companies that have vampirized gaming, leaving it a cold, nearly lifeless, husk. A means to put a lot of things right, and address a great many wrongs.
Got that? Now try this: the Rez interview with Tetsuya Mizuguchi that Video-Senki did such a good job of translating. Read the whole thing, it's only two pages and I'll be waiting right here.
Now then, one of these people understands gaming and one does not. One of these people is working with an eye toward an entrenched and knowledgeable audience and one is aiming at everyone he can get his hands on. Which one of them is right?
-Nich Maragos, would have been in Deep Eyes but for my nearsightedness
|