Double Agent
Shangri- La Dee Da - July 6, 2001 - Jeremy Steimel

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed within this column are those of the participants and the moderator, and do not necessarily reflect those of the GIA. There is coarse language and potentially offensive material afoot. You have the reflexes of a retarded cat. Don't say we didn't warn you.

To begin on a side note, I'll admit I stole that title. I can't help it, it's just such a cool title. Okay, in actuality, it's the title of the Stone Temple Pilots' new CD. Very cool stuff -- I suggest anyone who enjoys their type of music give it a spin. I also picked up the soundtrack for Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within, which I highly suggest, even if it doesn't sound anything like FF music that we know. I also saw Scary Movie 2 tonight, which I highly suggest avoiding. I may have enjoyed the first movie, but as with all horror flicks (even this parody), I feel that much less intelligent after having seen the sequel.

A lot of people wrote in to express their opinions on the whole subject on innovation in videogames. I have a thing or two to get off my chest as well, but it'd beat the entire point of hosting a letters column if I did that now. So, without further hesitation, let's get right to the letters so I can run my mouth. Well, I guess my fingers would be more appropriate. Whatever, you know what I mean.

Variation = Good

Right now, I'm just shuddering at the thought of the entire industry innovating alone lines that would please me. Or that would please anyone else that wrote into this column. Or a random person on the streets.

I'm happy as long as one company, or even one decently high-profile producer/director is making games that suit my taste on a regular basis. In general, diversity is probably what is really needed to make sure the game industry thrives and moves forward in a way that occasionally pleases me.

As it goes, liscensed games tend to be horrible trash, but they make money that may be used to make a better original game. From a fanboy's point of view, it seems like they're some horrible blight on the industry, but most of the people who buy them likely enjoy them, and some of those people may use the system they bought a tossaway like Indepenence Day for to later play a Final Fantasy game. Likewise, even if some games move in a direction I don't neccessarily want them to (say, RPGs towards D&D style 'do anything' structures), so long as other games are moving in the direction I want them to go, then theorectically, twice as many people are happy.

So, basically, I want developers to stay the hell way from my opinion- except one or two which happen to cater to my niche.

-Davon

Davon makes an excellent point which I can whole-heartedly agree with. Games simply wouldn't be as fun as they can at times if everything was the same. Sometimes, when we comment on our favorite aspects of games, we gamers tend to make it sound like we will not play anything besides what fits our favorite niches perfectly. However, this simply isn't the case. I, for one, enjoy a variety in the games I play. I may like traditional RPGs slightly better than fighting games, but I guarantee that if you tried to steal my copies of Soul Calibur of Guilty Gear, it'd be an instant throw-down. Of course, that's quite a broad reference. One of my favorite debates is the whole "Sci-Fi versus Medieval RPG settings" debate. It surprises me how many people want to see only one or the other -- personally, I'd get bored fast.

An ever-branching tree.

Innovation. The world has become so varied that very little true innovation is left. Now, we just take a few things that work, and make em work together. Ska mixed big band, regge, and punk, Aerosmith and Run DMC mixed rap and rock (speaking of genre creation by bands, this was officially it...and BTW, as far as I'm concerned, Boston began the Alt Rock movement). So I;d like to see more....mixing. The FPS mode in MGS2 for example. More complex and button driven menus in RPGs. An even more extreme fighting game based engine in an RPG. More story in an FPS. And whenever someone can get it up to invent somehting wholly new, like rythm games, I'm all for it. Though rythm games are just mixes between button mashers and puzzle games.

On the other hand, a well done classic can be great. Lunar SSSC is my all time favorite game, and Stairway to Heaven is my all time favorite song. So while innovation livens tihngs up, there is a lot to be said for correct usage of the proper classic formula.

Though Stairway WAS rather innovative....hey, did you guys know Stairway was written abo Lord of the Rings? I juts found that out a few weeks ago, and thought I'd share.....



Peace,
Stryker.

Once again, another good point that I agree pretty much entirely with. I hate to sound overly deep, but we don't exactly live in a mold-breaking world, in my personal opinion. Many of the things that can and will be done, have been done. The world population is way up there, and each individual stands out that much less as it grows. These aren't exactly prime conditions for innovation.

To continue Stryker's music example, I can recall an event that happened a couple weeks ago that fits in with his basic idea. A few friends and myself were all sitting around in our apartment playing some music. I had my trusty Gibson Flying V guitar, and my roommate had his Fender Bass (which we're just now teaching him how to play). His girlfriend, who is a drummer, had her guitar which she's learning how to play, and a few girls we work with were over to watch. My roommate's girlfriend starting trying to do a little improv, when someone immediately interjected and noted that they thought what she played sounded familiar, that she must've taken it from a different song.

What ensued was a discussion on the near impossibility of innovating music. Think of how many millions of songs have been written throughout the years. Do you really think you can come up with an entirely original tune that will not sound even vaguely familiar to a single person? Chances are, it's just not going to happen. Just like videogames, the guitar is a limited medium of expression. The user controls what he or she creates, but only within certain boundries. And even if someone does find a way to make a different type of sound, that certainly doesn't mean it will be good.

Game designers face the same basic dilemma. No matter how imaginative a developer is, they cannot escape the physical and technical limitations that are thrust between the product as they envision it in their minds, and the product that is coded.

Of course, this all just questions the ability to achieve innovation. Another thing to consider is the basic need for it....

We don't need no stinking innovation!

Hmm... screw innovation. Everyone keeps innovating for innovation's sake, and much of the time, what do we get? Crap.

"Back in tha day", innovation meant giving Mario a tail. One little ability that altered the way the game could be played. (well, two- flying and whacking) New enemies, new levels, but not messing with the features that kept us glued.

Not to say innovation is BAD- just that a lot of people try to make innovation when none is needed, or wanted, just so they can justify to themselves putting the word 'innovative' on the box.

Give me 40 new dungeons in the ff6j engine, and watch me go. (Final Fantasy: Opposing Force.)

Obsidian Zero,
Known on Earth as Joseph Picard

Preach on, my gaming brother. Not to knock the gaming journalism industry which I so love, but I find the fact that "Innovation" is one of the ratings on many sites scales to be a very, very sad thing. We've covered the grounds on how difficult it can be to achieve any real innovation, and that applies here. I agree with OZ's comments that too many developers attempt to innovate solely for the sake of innovation. And innovation often becomes so difficult that the result is something pointless and mundane. In that respect, I believe that innovation is quite akin to humor -- if it's forced, it's very unlikely to put a smile on my face.

Grrrl Gamers, Part VIII.

Well, I'm fairly agnostic about gameplay. I can deal with the menu-style of traditional RPGs, the action-style of Dark Cloud (but don't give me Summoner or Vagrant-Story style battles, because those are out of my league), etc. (Just never give me character- relative movement, because that is Evil.)

What do I want to see in games? Xenosaga seems to have the right idea - the main character so far is a woman. Yes, I want to play as my actual gender for a change. Not only that, I want a woman who kicks ass, doesn't fall in love with the hero, doesn't need to be rescued at any point in the game, and doesn't turn into a total wuss by the end of the game.

For something truly innovative - how about a game where, when you beat it with the main character, you can play through as one of the minor characters, an NPC, or even a villain? Play as Yuffie or Cait, not Cloud; Seda instead of Toan; Laguna instead of Squall; one of the demons instead of Rudy & co in Wild Arms - something to let you get a different view of characters and the story.

Kallah

Time to play the sympathizer -- I'll fully admit it must be frustrating to be a woman playing RPGs. Finding a strong female lead to look up to wouldn't exactly be an easy task. I guess those are the woes of being in the minority.

I like your idea for seeing multiple viewpoints in a game, although I have a feeling it'd be a pain for developers to pull off well. Still, it would be rather interesting.

As a younger lad who hated it everytime a favorite SNES RPG came to an end, I always wanted a random event generator to lead out the rest of my hero's life. Imagine you're finishing up your run through Final Fantasy VI, and you've successfully guided your heros home. So what happens from there? Sure, they all live happily ever after, right? But even if there's no major adventures after the story ends (read: nothing that has to be heavily scripted), they surely had some adventures none the less. I'd like to see a game which randomly generates certain basic scenarios, and also keeps tabs of your actions and previously generated scenarios to help dictate future events. If one were so inclined, you could live out the rest of your main hero's life. Sure, it's not the best idea in the world, but I was always hoping someone would give it a try. (Granted, Lunar: Eternal Blue was a step in that direction)

Online gaming -- Infuriating the console crowd since 1997.

Jerimiah,

I know I'll get some flack for this, but I propose a ban on online gaming. Well, not forever. Just until developers can get their heads back in the game (no pun intended). I hate to sound like that Dogma 2001 crap, but there needs to be rules, damnit. One rule really. Don't create an online social club only! Sure, it sounds good in theory. People will meet on the net and have intelligent conversations then blow each other up or what have you. The problem being that A) That's not really much fun and B) a good number of people on the internet are idiots. While, granted, it would be satisfying to destroy someone pleading in l337 speak (extremely satisfying), it's just not helping the greater good. Besides, that could wear out quickly. Then what? No story to keep you hooked, no secret dungeons, no nothing. Just a bunch of people running around typing with their knuckles.

-- Shawn K

I think online gaming has a ways to go, and a lot of maturing to do. The types of games that most of us think of when we say "Online RPG" is going to be an Ultima Online / Everquest style games. While these games have been out for a few years, it is still a relatively new genre.

I played some UO when it first came out, and tried to do some adventuring with a friend from work a few months back, but I could never get into the game. I couldn't stand how bland the world of Ultima Online was. I didn't feel any excitement exploring the world -- a tile-based structure will do that to you. No matter how far I traveled, no matter how hard I searched, there was never an exciting exploration feeling, because everything looked the exact same.

My ideal Online RPG would have a graphical interface like Zelda 64, with a world like that of Chrono Cross. If you take the size of Chrono Cross' world and give it Z64's exploration style, the world would seem quite big. And the different, somewhat mystical areas, would be fun to travel to, since you'd really feel like your traveling.

This guy's got the right idea.

When you come down to it, games are supposed to be fun. Innovation is great, but useless if it ends up creating something that isn't fun.

The problem is, most people relate innovation with evolution. Deus Ex is an evolution on the traditional FPS. Vagrant Story is an evolution on the traditional RPG. This is great, don't get me wrong, and both of the above are very fun games. But what I really want to see is not evolution, but *revolution.*

When Tetris was created, it wasn't an evolution or outgrowth of anything. It was completely, 100% original. It spawned a genre by itself. Doom (or, fine, you can argue Wolfenstein 3D) was completely innovative game, kicking off an entire industry. FFI is still the archetype for every traditional (or even semi-traditional) RPG released to this day.

What I want to see is new genres being created, things being explored that no one's ever tried before. What, specifically? Hell, I dunno. I'm no game designer. Surprise me.

-Eigthball

I've said it a few times before in this column, and I'll say it again: When it comes to my personal enjoyment of a game (and not a more technical review), I could dumb games down to two categories if I felt so inclined: Ones that make my brain go "Mmm, good!" and ones that make it go "Ugghh, bad!" If I find a game to be fun, I couldn't care less how the game got there, all that matters if that it did.

A good example of this is something our old friend Allan Milligan brought up quite a long time ago -- every now and then, you'll find a game that you know isn't very good, yet you enjoy it anyways. A personal example would be GranStream Saga. Technically speaking, GSS sucks in about every way possible -- the storyline is extremely generic, the gameplay is far too simple, the graphics are absolutely horrid, and the game is a good bit too short. However, despite these major drawbacks, I got a huge kick out of playing GSS, and I couldn't put it down. Would I recommend it to anyone? Never. But I also will not be selling my copy anytime soon.

Closing Comments:

Well, that ends my two day return to DA. Everyone's favorite Weekend-Wonder, Nich "Super-Fly " Maragos is back for his usual weekend extravaganza. Or something. Let's give the crazy southerner something to work with -- I've delved into one of my darkest secrets by expressing my love for GSS. What gaming ironies do you have to share? What horrible game kept you from getting any sleep or substance, despite its unadulterated suckiness? Let Nich know.

-Jeremy Steimel, over and out.

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