Double Agent
Systems analysts - July 1, 2001 - Fritz Fraundorf

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed within this column are those of the participants and the moderator, and do not neccessarily reflect those of the GIA. There is coarse language and potentially offensive material afoot. I kiss chu! Don't say that I didn't warn you.


GIA has lost its touch! This Double Agent is an insult to fans of the column. It is a shameless marketing ploy decided to cash in on the Double Agent name and milk the franchise for all it is worth. The letter writers all look like they're from boy bands and have no personality. GIA spent too much time trying to get mainstream MTV-watching morons to click on the column and not enough time on the text. This column lacks the plain-text setting of the early columns and is clearly missing the Double Agent Feel.

WORST. COLUMN. EVAR!!!!111

Fritz's personal opinions, which you probably don't care about

Hi there, I've been reading your site for quite sometime now (after I got weary of IGN), so I thought I might as well write. Enough for the introduction and let me add a small remark to yesterday's (the day before, actually) subject: I don't usually rename characters, but I changed "Dagger" to "Alexia" (queen of Alexiandra, ergh...).

Now to the subject. I finished Vagrant Story in 40 hours but I did understand the system and don't think it's that complex after all, just as the Junction system was (as long as you had enough magic to actually try out things). However, they're more complex than most, and this allows for some rather weird things to do (like playing Grandia 2 on A.I. - but I digress). Eventually I could beat Ultima Weapon with one Renzokuken, Ultimecia was no match for me and the Cathedral bosses were cut into pieces with my trusted 2 hand blade before they could hit me once. I'm experimenting on other ways to beating those games right now (and I have been in the past), and I believe having "complex" systems adds quite a lot to the replay value. However, a designer should not allow the systems to hamper other parts of the gameplay. The only thing that ticks me off in Vagrant Story is that there is no shorcut menu for weapon swapping. Let's say there are beasts, humans and evil creatures in one room and I've got three double function blades (i.e., phantom-human, beast-dragon, evil-undead), I've got to open the main menu two times and press O about ten times to swap weapon. Of course, I could dispose of the evil creatures with my phantom blade, but sometimes that's not so easy and I don't get points to make the blade stronger - in fact, it is weakened. What I'm trying to say is that, the more complex the "systems" become, the more care must be put into crafting a proper interface. Speaking of which, I found Valkyrie Profile to be quite confusing in its menus, and there's no real guide to what weapons do and how they combo. Remember Ocarina of Time: everything was perfectly clear at all times, despite your having 3 items, sword, shield and Z targeting and movement to take care of. OK, maybe the example is not so fitting, but the idea should be clear anyway. Thanks.

The Artist Elsewhere Known as M-Square (M2) but who shall be known as M-Cube on the GIA.


Agreed -- a solid, usable interface is an important piece of any game, complicated or otherwise.

Another must-have -- for me, at least -- that no one mentioned is a clear description of how the system works, or at least an indication of what you're doing. Persona 2 is a great example -- it lists all the Personas you can fuse and lets you look over the spells and statistics of each one. And while Vagrant Story does leave you to figure out how to forge useful items on your own, it at least lets you preview the weapons you're about to create. Star Ocean 2, on the other hand, never gives you any indication of what you can do or make with each skill, forcing you to waste your time and items trying to find out -- which is (one of the reasons) why that game drove me up the walls.

LOL@COMICKAL DARRAVON LIEN!

I'm the kind of person who couldn't understand the tutorials in FF8, FF7, FFT and Vagrant Story despite sitting down for 2 hours trying to figure it out, but I ended up being best at these games because I went ahead and fiddled with the battle system for 5 minutes and ignoring the tutorial's words of wisdom.

Moral of the story: Pay no attention to the tutorials; they serve to only confuse you.

DMJ


Indeed. I have to admit that I almost returned Final Fantasy Tactics after reading the tutorial and being completely and uttery lost. I have nothing else to say here, so here's more Photoshopped stupidity.

More of Fritz's irrelevant opinions. Watch his ego grow!

Hey Fritz,

I think a nice happy medium kind of thingie is best. I like a system where I can tinker almost as much as I want, but if pressed use the constant, and though that may be tougher, it saves the brain.

FFT is a great example. You really didn't have to unlock mime, calculator, or even medator, Ninja or anything. With knights, archers, priests, black mages, and theives alone you could beat the game, or you can you the special classes such as Holy Swordsman, Divine Knight, etc, to beat it. But you didn't have to. I found FFT's job system very simple, and it could have been much more complicated but wasn't. Something along those lines is great. It allows for great depth but doesn't force it on you.

That is what RPGs today need to do to continue to make their systems immersive and increase replay value while still being fun and easy enough that you do not have to be Dexter to figure it out.

Efrate, still awaiting an FFT2.


While that sort of option sounds great on paper, there's some definite implementation issues with it. For one thing, if the depth isn't needed for the game, what's the point of having it? If you could beat FF VIII by only using G.F.s over and over (like many people tried to), why bother Junctioning? Sure, there's bonus dungeons and bosses to challenge, but being an unmotivated slacker with a short attention span, I have a hard time getting interested in trying "extra" dungeons if there's not going to be anything new to see.

Personally, I'd rather see developers just make separate simple and complicated games. The same goes for story vs. gameplay, or any other apparent conflict. Too many games -- especially PC games -- try to be everything to everyone and inevitably fail. Why not just focus on different styles in different games, instead of trying to make one action-adventure-strategy-simulation-RPG-shooter, designed for multiplayer with a strong single-player game, that emphasizes stealth, combat, and puzzles and that is challenging but doesn't let the game get in the way of the player? (Sorry, Deus Ex fans.)

That's nice, dear. Have a cookie.

My limit on rpg system complexity is when you junction magic to your stats. Or play a board game to raise your stats. HOHOHO JUST KIDDING I KILL YOU I LOVE THEM BOTH

-skullie


You know, most "stupid" or "weird" letters are really just transparent attempts by bored people to get into a letters column. Like this one, for example. But I needed more letters, so here you go! Don't play with it too much or you'll wear it out and I'm not buying you another one.

The cool thing about being a letters columnist is unnecessarily spouting off and having thousands of people actually read your opinion. Wait, that's why I never read letters columns.

Hey chief! 8-)

Hum. No, I like my RPGs to be more or less simple. In fact, after three days of rental, I *never* figured out Vagrant Story, although that's really the exception rather than the rule. I liked CC's Element system a lot, ditto for FF9's Ability System. I had lots of fun with FF Tactics. But it's just so easy for systems to become increasingly complicated to the point where if they throw in one stat for one enemy that's too heavy, you usually have to do some sort of obscure trick to beat it. (See the Ramza/Wiegraf solo battle in FF Tactics, or the Dario battle in CC.) It's just much harder to compensate. So yep, simple's more boring, but it works better. That's what we science types call Occam's Razor: Simple solutions work. That's why Earth goes around the sun and not vice versa. 8p

--Cidolfas, who has GOT to get this damn astronomy stuff out of his head


While battles shouldn't be puzzles with only one correct "solution," I'm all for fights that challenge the player to think in new ways. Adapting to new situations and figuring out the right strategy to overcome a tough situation is where the fun in turn-based battles is generally supposed to come from. The problem is that the conventional "Fight, Magic, Steal, Item" mechanics don't leave room for much in the way of strategy any more. Sure, there's the standard challenges - the boss that counts down to a powerful attack, the boss with several limbs, the "instant death" attacks - but they've all been done so many times that everyone already knows how to fight back.

That's what I enjoy about new "systems", or at least well-done ones -- they provide a chance to develop a new strategy to fit a totally different set of rules. Yes, the Junction System could be easily abused by junctioning Ultima to Squall's Speed stat and casting Aura on him, but what was cool about it was that we had to figure out how to abuse it. Everyone knows how to win with a standard RPG battle/ability system. But new systems can make for some refreshing thinking and strategizing.

Of course, there will always be people like our next writer, who has apparently never, ever had to think about a new system and has taken the time out of his busy schedule of beating Viewpoint in his sleep to inform the world of his wonderful gaming prowess.

We throw ourselves in awe at your feet

Howdy GIA people,

You're trying to tell me that they make complex games? There has yet been a game that has knocked lil' ol me off my feet with its complexity, so if you could kindly point in the direction of one I will quickly show you that the game is no more complex than baking a cake....which isn't hard if you've never done it....quite easy....nevermind...

Wait! Did you point at Vagrant Story? Ah ha ha ha! That game complex? Please...you're killing me! Ha ha ha! *falls over dead from laughing*

~Wibble~


I'm glad we could amuse you. By the way, Zak McClendon recommends you try Carnage Heart, which we're sure you'll find about as complex as programming a cake.

You're a drooling idiot, Charlie Brown

Dear Fritzy,

I don't know about system complexity in RPG's, but one thing I'm getting sick of is plot complexity. There's a prevailing attitude that the more convoluted and complicated the story, even unnecessarily (ESPECIALLY unnecessarily), the better. Xenogears pushed the envelope with its -specially- set aside -words- and incomprehensible exposition, and Chrono Cross just threw caution to the wind with its weakly thought-out tie-ins to Chrono Trigger and all that crap in Chronopolis that I can't even remember. Obviously, a strong and engaging plot is integral to an RPG, but throwing in needless fodder to confuse the player does not a good story make.

I'm prepared to be called a drooling idiot,
Nistelle


Well, there's your topic for tomorrow: Are game plots getting too complicated? I don't think complicated stories are bad (I loved Xenogears'), but the more complex you get, the harder it is to execute it all well -- which is why games with simpler, less epic stories often end up more endearing.

Closing comments:

I'll shut up now. I'm sleepy...

- 'Fritz Fraundorf', -terminal interface columnist-

 
Recent Columns  
06.30.01
06.29.01
06.28.01
Double Agent Archives
Chris Jones was a car thief