Do not pass Go, do not collect 200 AP -
June 20, 2001 - Chris Jones
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed
within this column are those of the participants and the
moderator, and do not necessarily reflect those of the
GIA. There is coarse language and potentially offensive
material afoot.
Nick Rox rocks! Wait a minute... rox... rocks... oh, I get it!
Don't say we didn't warn you.
I was quite pleased to see that the composers for two of my favorite under-appreciated Square games, Dewprism and SF2, will be working with Uematsu on the FFX soundtrack. When you think about it, this is really the best of both worlds - most people seem to agree that when Uematsu's on, he's really on, but he's spreading himself too thin lately with too many tracks on the PSX installments. If he can just concentrate on a few key themes, and let Nakano and Hamauzu try some new spins on the more common pieces, the result could be one of the better FF soundtracks we've heard in a while.
Onward.
| Incomprehension |
| Chris,
Uh, what? I mean no offense, but did you hire Daravon to write that
preview of the Sphere Board System? It *sounds* complex and fulfilling
in that special way, but hell if I know what that whole preview is
talking about.
I figure this is going to be like a lot of other game systems that are
so convoluted that only with hands-on practice can you ever hope to
understand it--and forget explaining it to someone else.
-Matt B.
|
Well, sure, nobody really knows what it's about at this point, aside from Square themselves, and only time and actual customer feedback will tell if it's any good. But in the meantime, half-assed (and sometimes whole-assed) guessing is what we're all about here at DA.
| Some whole-assed guessing |
| The sphere system appears to be a graphical representation of the Final Fantasy Tactics job system, with one major exception. The order in which you learn your abilities actually matters. If you've spent twenty years training as a ninja and switch over to learning to cast white magic, it should be different then if you change from a black mage to a white mage. Since statistics are affected by your location on the sphere board, changing from a two opposite classes, like fighter and black mage, is difficult because you probably have not invested in magic power stats that a mage needs. However changing from a black mage to a white mage, assuming magic skill is based on the same characteristic, should be relatively easier.
-Fares
|
This is about what I've been thinking, with the relative character position on the board representing potential abilities. In the meantime I am curious about one thing - since the game's name is Sphere Board, does that mean the only spheres are the actual ability tokens you end up putting down, or is the board itself spherical (ie three dimensional) as opposed to flat, like in the screenshot? In other words, are there multiple boards, of which the one we've seen is only one particular level?
| Progressive... |
| Chris,
I've got to say, that along with everything else about FF10, the character management system looks to be shaping up nicely. Of course, I guess we're still not sure of the specifics of Sphere, but I'll applaud Square's effort to even try anything other than the classic experience/levelling system that we've had for so long. This really is something significant, you know. It's a milestone for console RPGs when a series as high profile as Final Fantasy begins to throw off some of those ideas from the past that seem so regressive now. Who knows, maybe random battles will be next, and then, just maybe we'll be playing an FF with no menus ;)
Oh, but can I just throw in one superfluous complaint? I'm still not quite sure why they want to make the system so customizable that an admitted black mage character can learn white magic exclusively. I think there is a happy medium between FF10 style customization and FF4 style specialization. In Lulu's case, why not give the player the chance to explore different styles of black magic; some may prefer fiery death, meteors, and such while others may want a more subtle, necromantic selection of magics.
Will FF10's uber-customization hamper my enjoyment of the game? No way.
Will I still make snap judgements about it without all the information? You bet. (what can I say, it's fun to speculate!)
Regards,
evanesce
|
I wouldn't be surprised to see some level of affinity creep over from the character's official class into their Sphere board options. Position seems to mean everything in this system - the farther out you go, the more powerful in a certain area you get. Move as far to the left as you can and you may be the best black magic user possible, but 45 degrees up and you're the best summoner, and 180 degrees from you is the position of the best fighter. If each character starts a small way in to their supposed specialty, you'll have some incentive to continue along in that direction - Lulu could be a kickass fighter, but some of her early AP might be spent undoing the magic skills she already had.
And if I talk too much more about this, I'll probably start drawing polar coordinate diagrams, so I'll stop now.
| ...and regressive |
| "The Sphere Board System is said to make party members
completely customizable... This revelation seems to
suggest that, as in Final Fantasy VIII, the Overdrive
moves will be the only abilities that vary from
character to character."
What I felt upon reading this paragraph can't really
be put into words. The emotion was just a sudden
welling up of frustration, anger, and a desire to
smash a toaster oven and scream "WHY, GOD, WHY?!?".
As far as game mechanics go, they've done this
"totally customize your characters" thing before. In
FFV... And VI.. And VII, and VIII. FFIX was a VERY
refreshing change of pace for me, going back to the
style of FFIV, where your point in the flow of the
story determined who you had in your party, their
skills, and thus your strategy... You had to THINK to
win battles, not just Junction 100 Ultimas to
Strength, or equip a Mastered Phoenix Summon Materia
linked to a Mastered Final Attack Materia.
Now, to be fair, FF V and VI required significant
investment in the characters themselves, having them
learn the jobs and magic for each individual
character, and VI better in that the special abilities
were *always* available. But come now, why would you
bother using Edgar's Drill or Setzer's Slots when you
can just equip an Economizer and cast Ultima for 1 MP?
FF VIII is of course the absolute worst offender in
this regard. I hated the Junction system because it
was more of the same. Sure, the path is different, but
the end was identical; in battle, the characters are
totally interchangeable, with the exception of the
Limit Breaks (which, to be honest, I never used much,
except for Quistis' Big Guard).
I was hoping, with the things they had said about the
battle system being more different, things actually
WOULD be different. I'm still hoping, because we don't
know enough about it to make any true calls, but if
things turn out the way I'm dreading they will, I'm
going to wait until the PS2 hits the $200 mark to get
one (and also so I can get MGS2 and FFX used).
Cecil
P.S.: Sorry for the length, this is something I've
been wanting to get off my chest for a long time.
P.P.S.: Yes, I absolutely LOVED Chrono Cross' battle
system. :-)
P.P.P.S.: Yes, I hate the "customize your character"
systems so much that I will willingly NOT buy a game
because of it, if it also turns out that FFX has a
crappy plot.
P.P.P.P.S.: Why don't they just call Limit Breaks
Limit Breaks and be done with it? |
Personally, I just don't get why it's such a big deal for all characters fighting abilities to be unique - fighting's one of the least interesting parts of any Final Fantasy game, as far as I'm concerned, so who cares if Quistis hits like a brick bat and uses Ultima with ease? But then again, I didn't particularly freak out over the general lack of Triple Techs in CC either, so what do I know?
As for unique characters, I think that's one thing the Sphere system will allow. Even assuming that there's no tendency for mage characters to learn magic more quickly, it doesn't look like you'll suddenly be able to exchange all Auron's skills with Yuna, because even though they started out at the same place, experience has made them into two very different people.
Or, as Confucius put it: "By nature, men are nearly alike; by practice, they get to be wide apart."
Yes, that was pretentious as hell, thanks for noticing!
| Short and concise |
| Wheee, the sphere system! More confusing stuff to turn me away from Final
Fantasy!
|
Yeah, but if you don't want complex battle and stat systems, what's left in the RPG world? Chocobo's Mysterious Dungeon?
| In defense of unique classes |
| Well, it looks cool from the shots, and there's something to be said for being able to customize your party. Looks to me like each character will still be defined in some manner by their positions on the board, at least I'm hoping so. I was never too fond of my characters being walking materia-holders (FFVII) or shapeless bundles of stats (FFVIII). Maybe FFIX will be more similar to FFVI, where there's room for customization but also distinction between characters.
Now for the rant portion:
I've always felt that giving a character intrinsic skills adds to their personality and characterization. In Final Fantasy II, Cecil finally overcomes his darker self and ascends to become a Paladin, that's a big part of who he is right? Now imagine if the entire party could change class and be Paladins as well. Sorry man, you're just no longer special. Or what if Cecil could pick up a funny looking rock and cast meteo? Wouldn't that seriously piss in Tellah's grits? I mean for *#%$'s sake, he died casting that damn thing. I think this is largely why the nobody gave a rat's ass (or tail) about Butts and his pals in FFV. And when I realized that Yuffie can't steal from an enemy without the"steal" materia, I actually gave the image on my television the finger.
Well, here's hoping that things turn out to my liking,
Mosquiton
|
The thing is, FF4's (and to an extent, FF9's) class system worked so well precisely because the story was tailored to take advantage of it. Kain's a dragoon, so his big moments involved doing what dragoons do best: jumping. Ditto Tellah, Steiner, Zidane: they all had moments where magic, or protecting, or stealing things made a big difference. But because FF5 and 8 didn't really have any unique abilities, character events in these games relied solely on... character. And because Squall didn't have to use any specific kind of sword attack, and Leena didn't have to use any specific magic spell that only she could learn, their classless natures didn't make a big difference in story terms, unlike your examples above.
On the other hand, Yuna's summons do seem to play a major part in FFX's story, so it would kind of suck if she's customized to be a champion unarmed fighter, who can also use powerful magic for no clear reason.
| Distraction |
| I can't say much about the sphere system, what little info I have seen just confused me more. I would speculate, but I learned long ago that speculation is a euphemism for leaving yourself open for future derision... Except on the rare occasion where you may be right, and then you have to deal with the frustration of everyone's unwillingness to believe you ever said such a thing (proof is meaningless).
What I would like to know, is WHY exactly square insists on shaking up the "system" with every FF release. Sure it gives a different taste to differentiate the games, but how many players are lost and/or confused in the transition? Wouldn't it make more sense to have stuck with a successful system then introduced new elements and tweaks as technology and gameplay advanced? I doubt there would be many FF fans who would complain about an updated and advanced JOB system powering FFX, and it would have given Square the chance to learn from the experience and spend more time finding the perfect balance. I enjoyed FF8 enough, but I'll happily resort to mindless violence on anyone dim (or biased) enough to say the junction system was well balanced (gee, just gotta draw 90 more hastes and I'm done!).
As these new systems are introduced they seem to get either more complicated, or more arbitrary, without advancing the play style noticeably enough to really be worth the effort. Sure someone could argue that the new systems are a part of the FF tradition, but are flagging sales and decreased interest a part that tradition too? I'm far too busy (ok, lazy) to actually research the sales figures, but I believe they have been on a steady decline since FF7. Of course there could be a number of reasons for this, but I'm rambling incoherently at this point anyway so I'm going to arrogantly act like this backs my point...
The Trooper
|
There's an old, old argument that says the only reason Square switched to 3D was to distract people from how lousy their games had gotten. I've never really bought into that, since I've enjoyed the gameplay of FF7-9 a good deal more than FF4-6, but The Trooper may be on to something here. I liked the Junction system (although, to be fair I liked it for the exact unbalanced reasons he suggests above) but even I'll admit it could have deserved some more polishing. And FFT's Job system is simply brilliant, but if Fares is right, one of the big reasons I'll enjoy FFX is because it's a refinement of a previous ability system.
It makes a lot of sense to say that Square keeps hitting us with shiny new ability systems to keep people interested. Of course, it could also be the case that new ability systems just reflect Sakaguchi's relentless tinkering in all areas of the game, trying to push the series further and further, but if so, it's a half way job. I'd rather see a completely new combat system, like PE/Vagrant Story, or a subtle refinement of an already good system, than see new, untested customization systems grafted on to the clunky ATB.
Of course, if the graphics are good enough, I'll completely ignore whatever crap passes itself off as gameplay, weakminded fool that I am.
| Square takes a page from Harvest Moon |
| Ano.. I think the Sphere System will either be a profound, innovative addition complementing FFX's gameplay... or it will suck. Many battle systems from RPGs seem very new and fun, but later on in the game, you're just so damn tired of it. For example... at first, I thought Chrono Cross had a great magic system. But as the game progressed, especially after starting NewGame+, magic was a complete waste of time. You could basically use ANY character with a decent weapon, and whack the hell out of any boss. Hell, Tumalu could kick Dario's ass. Anyway, another battle system that got old and fast was FFVIII. The battle system *itself* was the average-FF way, but the Limit Break system sucked. Soooooo damn cheap. Just getting your HP low triggers limit breaks, and you even get a spell that allows instant limit breaks! FFV's job system was too tedious--waaay too many battles needed to gain skills. 3/4 of the game is leveling up. Although FFT's job system improved on it a great deal--I loved FFT.
But then again, this "Sphere System" of theirs could be just as innovative as the Materia System. But the one thing I didn't like about the Materia System was that you could basically use any character in the game--no character was unique except for their limits. And after reading about the Sphere System, I'm afraid that will happen again in FFX. Characters need their own abilities! I thought FFIX did really well with that.
......
No, no, it'll fail.
No wait... no it won't fail.
NO! NOO!! It'll fail.
Ano... maybe not.
- Blargh!
P.S. Also, FFX should have an item called "Square Watermelons." Hot DAMN!! Those things are REAL! I thought the Simpsons just made it up. And you know, Square could buy into that business... Start a new francise of Square Watermelons charging 3 times the price of a normal watermelon!!! Screw PlayOnline!! SELL WATERMELONS!!!!
P.S.S. Don't mind me.
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All I know is, Drew would plotz if Square could come up with a new job system that would allow him to use the auto-milker as a weapon...
Closing Comments:
From the very new, we're going back to the very old (kinda): the Zelda series. Just tell me which was your favorite, why, and what you'd like to see done different (or similar) in the Gamecube installment. Adios.
-Chris Jones, happy as long as dice aren't involved
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