Terminal Dogma -
May 4, 2001 - Chris Jones
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed
within this column are those of the participants and the
moderator, and do not necessarily reflect those of the
GIA. There is coarse language and potentially offensive
material afoot.
WANT ITALIAN GIRL! Or german girl, I'm not picky.
Don't say we didn't warn you.
People keep sending this in, so I guess I better comment on it. Problem is, there's not that much to comment on. I don't disagree with a lot of what's being said - on the contrary, it's surprising how much some existing RPGs already fit most of those rules. At the same time, the thrust of what's being said seems somewhat superfluous. Games have always been about technology - there is no pure, unadulterated state of being for them to get back to. Maybe someday, when technology gets to the point where showing anything you want to on a screen is effortless, and there's enough computer power available to crunch any engine you can program, then we can start worrying about making games this way.
As for the rules themselves, they're somewhat unremarkable. Some of them feel like a bit of a stretch to make 10 (no black?) and some seem like far more of a hinderance than they're worth. (The hyper-realism of some FPS games aside, I was under the impression that 3D accelerators saved programmers work. A PS2 game without 3D acceleration would be fairly pointless, Gradius aside.)
The only thing that did tick me off was rule 6, regarding cutscenes, not so much for the reason itself as the justification: "The secret desire of game designers to be film directors is deleterious to their games and to the industry generally. This desire must be stamped out." Yeah, I gotta say the opening to the MGS2 demo really ruined the game for me. It didn't get me hooked on the game in the least, and I'd have far rather been dumped on the ship deck with no real understanding of how I got there or what I was supposed to do. Yeesh.
Onward.
Details, details. Somebody's gotta pay attention them. |
CHRIS!!!!
I am not sure who said it but I must make a correction to a letter from the past week or so. The letter was discussing the little eye alarm robots in FFIVj and the Magus Sisters in the Tower of Zot, and said the eye robots where in that tower.
They were NOT! The alarm guys were in the Tower and Giant of Babel. That tower was 8 floors and was underground primarily. Zot was only 6 floors and floating in the sky somewhere near the city which housed the Earth Crystal, on the upper world not underground! They were not in the same dungeon!
Also, a note on dungeons and gaming in general: the little touches make it seem so much better. I remeber Mega Man in Mega Man X, when he was in the snow stage, his breath was frosty, and he started limping like when he was low on health. That rocks! That really stood out to me and is the thing I remember most about that game today. Stuff like that needs to happen more often in games.
Efrate, Golbez's other brother, still searching for the elusive pink puff tail.
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Well ok then. But heck, he's right - little details do make the game. Problem is, those details are different for everybody: what I remember most from MMX was the DOS-like intro (32k terabytes, baby!), and what I remember most of Soul Blazer was the slightly pixelated aurora effect on the mountain stage. Who knows, maybe the only way to make a game that appeals to everybody is to have it stuffed with a thousand tiny details, so there's something for everyone... like Chrono Trigger.
State of the console races |
Yo Chris,
I'm not normally one to count chickens before their proverbial hatching, but
doesn't it seem like Nintendo and Microsoft are extremely screwed with their
upcoming consoles? The PS2 has a user base of 10 million people already,
with about 6 months before the release of the next console, the X-box.
Considering the lackluster impression Gates made in Japan, I can't imagine
those flying off the shelves overseas. By then, the PS2 could likely be
around the $250 mark (by Christmas at the latest), meaning that people may
just want to buy what has better game support. MS needs to either start
running promotions for it now, or make it known what huge franchises will be
on their machine (FF, MGS), otherwise, they'd just as well stop now.
As for Nintendo, we'd better see some actual games at E3, or else I fear
this'll turn into another N64, something released too late without enough
technical power to gain enough ground. They seem to be doing some stupid
things already, such as the minidisc which holds a whole lot less than a
DVD...there has to be a better way.
Even though I'll probably get a Game Cube eventually, they'd better start
releasing some actual images or movies of the games if anyone is going to
care. And Microsoft should try spending money on their buggy software before
entering the console race...Three's a crowd.
--The Steve, avid X-Box hater (just because MS pisses me off)
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At this point I don't think anybody seems particularly screwed - Microsoft and Nintendo both have me intrigued with their unique riffs on the console concept, and while the PS2 had an admirable marketing push that got it installed in plenty of homes, it now needs to stop talking raw graphical power and start talking games. Square and Konami have a grasp of what the system's capable of, but how many other developers do? And how many will want to stick around making games the slow, difficult PS2 way when they can get the same results much quicker on the Cube or X-Box? (Ok, if that logic held the Dreamcast would have done better, but still.)
At the very least, both companies should have the opportunity to make their E3 pitches before we second guessing them, so let's give 'em some room, eh?
The shame of my incorrect press release statement revealed! |
Heya Chris,
I think I can clarify a few lingering points regarding GIA news/company
support and maybe give readers some insight into the process. It would
not be "a lot more trouble" to get news we source to IGN or Gamespot, but
we aren't the same kind of site they are, and as such don't hurt ourselves
by sourcing them - the exact same reason IGN will source us but never
sources Gamespot. So long as we remain a professional one-stop shop for
the areas we cover, then we're succeeding.
Before I discuss company support, let me say that there has been one
consistent and comprehensive source over the years for the GIA: our
readers. Reader support has outweighed any amount of betas or interviews
a company can give, and doing your readers a service by running the best
site you can is how you get the best stories. We're always thankful for
tips, whether they're ones we can use or just somebody trying to help.
As for companies, they do not send press releases only to "two or three
well-known readers" and let them trickle down, as you suggested yesterday.
Press releases are the lowest common denominator as far as company
support goes; virtually any site can get press releases from any company.
Even getting reviewable copies isn't terribly difficult, depending on the
company. The true test is whether you get them before the retail launch
of the game.
Overall company support means talking with them about a range of issues
and stories. Sites only interested in free games are obvious and usually
short-lived. You were dead-on when you cited "established relationships."
The longer you work with a company, the more open they are to going the
extra mile for you, and the GIA has seen a steady and strong rise in
support over the past 2 1/2 years to the point where we've got some great
exclusive content lined up for E3.
Thanks for the time!
-Ed M.
GIA Agent
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Pretty much says it all, doesn't it? Thanks for the clarification, Ed.
And while I'm at it, I should point out that Ed ain't kidding about this year's E3 - we've got some truly kickass stuff lined up, thanks in no small part to Ed himself and the rest of the news staff who work all year to make E3 truly rock. Should be a heck of a show, so stick around, or some such glib tv-announcer stock phrase.
Why is that? |
I don't know why but I get the same feelinf playing Vagrent Story that I did
when I used to play games on the NES. I have never been able to puy my
finger on why that is.
Rowan Lord of Squid
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Why that is. |
I love Vagrant Story.
But at the same time, I hate it. I want to litterally destroy the disc. The story was
enthralling, the graphics were breathtaking, the dungeons were...well, just not fun. I
remember finally getting out of the Wine Cellar and reaching Lea Monde. I thought
to myself "Light, beautiful yet horrible in it's insanity!" Ten minutes later after a
needlessly annoying boss fight, it's DUNGEON TIME AGAIN. Oh, yes, but this one's
different. It's not in a wine cellar with undead city guards, oh no no, this one is in a
mine with Goblins!
This wouldn't be nearly as annoying if it weren't for three factors:
A) Bosses every 7-10 rooms. And usually you had no idea what you were in for and
just had to hope this next boss was right after a save point.
B) The rooms all shared an eerily similarity. Yes, I know. Maps and all that. Plus, real mines/wine cellers/forests/sewer systems all do look the same in real life.
However, is it really necessary to have them be so confusing in a game where
camera angles switched freely, so left and right were indefinite when you were in a
room full of zombies you just defeated?
C) Enemies come back after you leave the room. It wasn't annoying enough that
these goblins cast paralyze like it's a bodily function and that you're only chance to
survive was to master a defense ability that is pretty much "all or nothing", but you
have to face them again because you just entered the room that's locked with a key
you haven't gotten yet. Oops!
All this was done well with Zelda (the easiest to compare Vagrant Story to). You're
immediately put in the dungeon and you can see where the boss waits for you right
from the start, you just need to open up a passageway to get there. No two rooms
are exactly the same, so you always have a good idea if you;ve been there or not.
Now, that's not to say you won't be heading back to the same room again, of course
you will, and monsters will be there waiting for you. But they require no defense
ability, just previous knowledge of how to beat them. Then, you get to the boss, fully
prepared from having used the master key to enter his room.
Zelda did it well. Vagrant Story didn't. However, I still love Vagrant Story. I wonder
why that is?
-- Shawn K.
Also, I have no need for a message after my name to explain my letter, as post scripts are generally dumb and pointless and tend to go on and on without reaching any sort
of balence or basis in reality. That said, I bid you adieu, Mr. Jones.
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Ok, last time I'll print two or more letters in a row without replying, promise. I just get a kick out of getting random letters that compliment each other so well.
I've said it before, I'll say it again - as far as the level design goes, Vagrant Story most closely resembles the original NES Metroid. You've got the same huge, sprawling areas, the same plethora of interesting monsters and treasure, and the same sense of exploration as its own reward. Metroid bosses were far less common, but other than that everything you say above applies nearly as well to the one game as to the other. Come to think of it, a lot of those criteria apply to the original NES Zelda, too. (At least, when I started out, I kept confusing one room with another.)
Ocarina of Time does shape up a lot like you describe, which is both its strength and its weakness. In some ways playing an N64 Zelda game is a lot like visiting an amusement park: there are many different sections, each with a different feel to it. You've got your water temple, your cave temple, your desert temple, etc. In short, you get the full compliment of adventure terrains, but what makes it feel amazing also makes it feel a bit unreal. Lea Monde, on the other hand, felt completely, totally real. While it was not without its own level themes and occasional breathtaking vista, it felt like a real place, much like the characters felt like real people. In the end the games are selling two fairly different things: you can go to the Magic Kingdom on your vacation, or wander around the ruins of an authentic Middle Ages town that never was. It's your call.
Our regularly scheduled reminder not to get too jaded |
DA Chris,
Look, this is getting to be enough. It seems the readers of DA are getting more and more jaded by the month, and each seems to expect the impossible.
Aye, dungeons will always be there (why not add "fields" to your seven "dungeon" types, like in Grandia II.) There is no way to get around it. You have to explore somewhere, and those eight types cover about everything but 3D fields like outer space, which would make nine. Not all of these have been explored entirely, but they will be one day- no doubts there.
As for how dungeons are made, look at how designers can make paths. They can be linear, with only a path or two scattered about. They can be made with branching paths that have spoils, enemies, or dead-ends at the end. They can be mazes, with criss-crossing paths that confuse the player (like that tomb in FF8, but that just took looking at the map and understanding how the whole thing worked.) They can be puzzles, like Lufia II. I can think of a few others, but they border on action/adventure game styles.
And random encounters.... This is a huge can of worms. If characters didn't level up or increase in power, there is no way to keep the game from being a purely strategy game; you must do what you can with what you have rather than getting more or training skills or whatever. A "no random encounters" mode could be implemented, but it would be like people playing different games (nobody goes through the same trials in this style. Battling your way through dungeons to beat a hard boss is quite different from breazing your way through dungeons to beat a hard boss, no?) FF8 also attempted to do this, but that game required almost no level-upping, so it didn't really have a major impact.
If people want truly brilliant battles, play pen and paper RPGs. I'm in a group, and many times I've beaten stronger opponents and my stronger playing companions not through strength but through intelligence and strategy.
In the end, play all the games. Some have dungeon designs that are fun (like Sonic Adventure, for instance. No real battles: pure speed, pure fun.) Some have challenging dungeon crawls (like Wizardy.) Some have awesome and intelligent battles (like the muds and strategy games.) There is one for everyone. For those who don't have the time, DO RESEARCH! ASK! FIGURE OUT WHAT'S FOR YOU! DON'T EXPECT THEM TO BE THE SAME!
Ya' know, I'm actually not ranting. I just think the other side of the coin needs to be expressed. But then again, I'm only 17 and I haven't played as long (although I did play back in the NES days.) Most certainly do I hope you take this as constructive.
-James "Chuckman" Thorne
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I gotta stop printing these letters: when somebody covers all the angles, there's nothing for me to analyze. Ah well.
Closing Comments:
Revisiting the intro, it occurred to me that it's been a while since we had a good cinema/cutscene/FMV argument. Not that FMV's as big a deal as it used to be, with all current systems capable of generating FF7's cutscenes in real time, but discussion on the use of non-interactive intros and trailers seems worthwhile. At the very least, I think cutscenes are needed to avoid having the player wander around pointlessly for a while before the game really picks up, but I will allow that there's some merit in the argument that cutscenes make a game less of a game. So send in your email to
Drew, and I'll be back next week. Adios.
Chris Jones, always thought Terminal Dogma would make a great name for a Christian rock group
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