Double Agent
Vagrant Story is dead. Long live Vagrant Story. - June 13, 2000 - Chris Jones

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed within this column are those of the participants and the moderator, and do not necessarily reflect those of the GIA. There is coarse language and potentially offensive material afoot. Don't put your faith in gods. But you can believe in turtles. Don't say we didn't warn you.

Rapture.

That's what I felt about half an hour ago, around 7:30 PM CDT. Vagrant Story is finished, and I'm 100% satisfied with a game for the first time in a long, long time. Not sure what else to say, except I'm already looking forward to the next game from those involved and I'm gonna be really freaking upset if Square doesn't release something else in the FFT/VS universe.

Onward.

Render unto Toons what is Toons
Chris

I guess 2D can go many ways. Games like Jet Grind Radio and the upcoming PS2 Tokimeki Memorial show one way. 'Toon Rendered' graphics are quite appealing, and in a few generations time, maybe as little as the PS2's 3rd gen, we may actually see toon rendered graphics that are near perfect. Of course, these would probably run at 30 or 60 frames per second, so they won't look exactly like hand drawn stuff, but it would be nice. Perhaps by PS3 people would be able to program 'jerkiness' to give a really hand drawn effect.

Imagine, for a minute, A legend of Mana Sequel which has the fluidity and detail of Disney's Tarzan 'tree surfing' sequences. In fact, almost any game that could do that at 30 fps would be breathtaking. It is possible in a few years time. Good textures can make a world of difference.

Of course, here we are debating the future of graphics that look 2D. But most true 2D games also play in 2D. Would 2D playing games survive, or will they be taken over by 3D titles that look 2D? That's a subject for another day.

Vishal

It's the last point that's really key here, I think - most games ultimately play 2D, so it makes sense to have graphics that look 2D as well. As long as depth perception is nonexistent and movement is largely limited to a flat plane with little vertical movement, 2D works ok.

But as Vagrant Story just showed, you can also create quite decent combat systems that take advantage of all three dimensions. And once rendering hardware gets just a little faster, the possibility of true 3D shows up. (Two rendered images of the same scene with the virtual cameras placed slightly apart from each other displayed in front of your eyes will give the impression of depth. Displaying such a thing is tough, but not impossible.) Given those facts, maybe it's not a bad idea for companies to be trying their hands at 3D, even if 2D does have certain aesthetic advantages.

News for the oppressed Canadian masses
Re: Canadian shipping woes

Just an update for readers, it seems as though the Canadian game problem is a bit more serious than first believed. It seems that of the companies which agreed to the Quebec proposal, none have decided to do so with enthusiasm. Legend of Mana was shipped to Canadian distributors without the necessary french instructions - these were shipped later (on the US release date for LoM, to be exact).

Its expected that Legend of Mana will be released before the end of the month, while Vagrant Story is predicted to arrive as early as June 19th.

Re: 2D Games

>What concrete, rational argument could you make to a development house CEO, his eyes locked on the 3D promised land, that would >make him want to make a "true" sequel to Chrono Trigger or Metroid?

Any concrete rational argument has to show, business speaking, how well such a title would do for its given platform. Numbers and other business stuff thats not good for the squeamish, folks! Its the sort of thing I lobby a lot for, though.

Richard "KZ" Knight

Once more, KZ brings us news of the Canadian gaming crisis, and we are thankful. Our hearts go out to our deprived northern brethren.

Actually, all I was going for was some reason why going 2D (which is, these days, a relatively unusual thing in the gaming world) is worth doing. That doesn't have to involve numbers, in fact I'd be surprised if that's what Square's programmers were thinking when they decided on the graphical style of SF2. In that case the animation of the world and the characters increased the power of what was ultimately a very character driven story. But not all games would benefit from such a thing, so I wanna hear some reasons why it might make sense to do other types of games in 2D.

Secular humanists are taking over the world!
Is it just me, or is religion always perceived as either evil or false in every game that used it. Vagrant Story, Xenogears, and Koudelka are good examples, but more to the point, can you think of one game that presents religion as a benign and meaningful thing?

The religions in the three games I've mentioned most resemble Christianity (which is why they are oft times mischaracterized as satires of Christianity - which they are not) which isn't exactly popular in Japan. That may explain why Christianity is so negatively portrayed, but not why religion in general is. After all, doesn't Taoism have a strong following in Japan? Any thoughts?

~Israfel~

While you could argue that Xenogears draws a distinction between "good" religions and "bad" religions, the amount of apparently anti-religious stories and symbols in recent RPGs does seem excessive as of late. It's not hard to see why this is the case - Japan is a mixture of Buddhism, Shinto and a small bit of Christianity, but none of them seem to be taken with the same seriousness that many Americans take Christianity. Thus, it's probably no more difficult for the Japanese to take creative liberties with our sacred cows than it is for us to turn other mythologies into our pop entertainment. (See The Mighty Thor or Disney's Hercules as examples, though admittedly neither of those mythologies are currently viable.)

I'd also prefer to see a little more rounded portrayal of religion, but one of the things that a lot of people like about RPGs is their "Japanese-ness", which would be compromised when you start changing the chosen content of the stories. It's a case of bad-with-the-good, I think.

The vast corporate machine speaks
Chris:

I work for a nationwide retailer (Babbage's) and we recently instituted a policy stating we HAVE to pay attention to the ESRB ratings. Now, I'm a firm believer that the parent should be watching their kid, but I can understand why we got this policy.

At one point, our store had a mother call us saying that we'd sold her 10 yr. old child something that was as bad as drugs and guns. We'd sold him House of the Dead 2....apparently, his parents felt that we would make a good babysitting place while they were in the Bombay Company, and so it was OK that he was wandering about the mall with $55 in his pocket while his parents were there. /rant

Back to the topic at hand, by the same token, there are games that 8 year olds shouldn't be allowed to play--Nightmare Creatures II is one that comes to mind. If a game has an M rating, we now have the right to ask for ID--and it's company policy that we do, if a person looks too young.

So while it's true that stores used to not pay attention to the ratings, more and more are beginning to, if only to keep parents off our backs when little Timmy buys something he shouldn't--if the parents buy him Die Hard Trilogy 2, then they can't blame us for it being violent, we point out the ratings (as a personal policy) when a parent buys a game.

Jinnai

We don't generally hear from the folks who sell us our games, though we send a fair amount of abuse their way. So it's only fair for salespeople like Jinnai to get their say.

The basic question here is if gamers' freedom to play games is being overly compromised by measures designed to stop incidents like the one mentioned above. While there are those who'd argue that ratings should be abolished and it should be entirely up to the parent to monitor content, I'm thinking that the best alternative would be an accurate ratings system enforced across the board. If Jinnai and company keep their end of the bargain, it only falls to the ESRB to get their act together.

...but fat chance of that happening
If sugestive themes means any hint of a relationship why the hell did MGS for gameboy get an E rating. I mean really it is a T rated game bordering on an M. Then again has ANY gameboy game been given anything but a E or a K-A? I smell something fishy here.

--
BeerGoggles_FromMARS
Daniel Kaszor

Someone also pointed out that E-rated Wild Arms 2 contained some questionable content, whereas E-rated Grandia got things pulled out that shouldn't have made much of a difference, like alcohol. It's clear things need improving, but it's probably out of our hands for now.

Yeah, I'm no graphics either
Okay, I'm no graphics or anything, I've been playing RPGs since the Super Nintendo (and guess what, I'm a girl too!). With that in mind, when I first bought Legend of Mana I didn't like the way it looked. It just seemed... odd compared to all the other games I've been playing in the last year. Domina just looked too cartoony (Yeah, yeah, hurry up and beat Vagrant Story that way you can understand what I'm talking about) but once I went into the Jungle, I had changed my mind. The detail is just astounding; The graphics aren't odd but quirky and it gives it an original feel in sometimes stagnant field. I still think the towns are just okay, but the dungeons are incredible. I prefer to be in them than in town, which is the exact opposite of what I felt with FF8. Come on, someone back me up here! The game just captures you, even if it doesn't seem to have a point... I love the game, and I have played it over 20 hours in two days (and I have finals now!)

Malika

It's probably worth noting that old school or no, hard core or no, people seem to get more emotionally involved with games on the appearance level when they're 2D, as Malika proves. I still say someone needs to develop a 3D style that has the same character as 2D animation can have, and although FF9 looks like it might be a step forward, I don't think we're there yet.

Depth is overrated
"If you're a hard core fan, are there any visual tricks can do in 3D to give you that old school 2D feeling, or is only the real thing acceptable?"

Close one eye... Oh, wait, the TV's flat anyway.

-Nova, the SG

P.S. Now, if you weren't talking about video games...just imagine the implications of the above question on real life.

I have pretty poor eyesight, so my depth perception's shot anyway. Still, most people would probably miss having more than just height and width, so let's all keep both eyes open for the moment.

Closing Comments:

This is the moment you've all been waiting for - the moment I finish VS and the debate about the significance of the ending can begin! Let's hear your thoughts on the matter, whatever they may be. Later.

-Chris Jones, about to get Manafied

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