Vagrant Story is dead. Long live Vagrant Story. - June 13,
2000 - Chris Jones
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed within this column are those of
the participants and the moderator, and do not necessarily reflect those of the GIA. There
is coarse language and potentially offensive material afoot. Don't put your faith in gods.
But you can believe in turtles. Don't say we didn't warn you.
Rapture.
That's what I felt about half an hour ago, around 7:30 PM CDT. Vagrant Story is
finished, and I'm 100% satisfied with a game for the first time in a long, long time. Not
sure what else to say, except I'm already looking forward to the next game from those
involved and I'm gonna be really freaking upset if Square doesn't release something else
in the FFT/VS universe.
Onward.
Render unto Toons what is Toons |
Chris I guess 2D can go many ways. Games like Jet Grind Radio and the
upcoming PS2 Tokimeki Memorial show one way. 'Toon Rendered' graphics are quite appealing,
and in a few generations time, maybe as little as the PS2's 3rd gen, we may actually see
toon rendered graphics that are near perfect. Of course, these would probably run at 30 or
60 frames per second, so they won't look exactly like hand drawn stuff, but it would be
nice. Perhaps by PS3 people would be able to program 'jerkiness' to give a really hand
drawn effect.
Imagine, for a minute, A legend of Mana Sequel which has the fluidity and detail of
Disney's Tarzan 'tree surfing' sequences. In fact, almost any game that could do that at
30 fps would be breathtaking. It is possible in a few years time. Good textures can make a
world of difference.
Of course, here we are debating the future of graphics that look 2D. But most true 2D
games also play in 2D. Would 2D playing games survive, or will they be taken over by 3D
titles that look 2D? That's a subject for another day.
Vishal |
It's the last point that's really key here, I think - most games ultimately play 2D, so
it makes sense to have graphics that look 2D as well. As long as depth perception is
nonexistent and movement is largely limited to a flat plane with little vertical movement,
2D works ok.
But as Vagrant Story just showed, you can also create quite decent combat systems that
take advantage of all three dimensions. And once rendering hardware gets just a little
faster, the possibility of true 3D shows up. (Two rendered images of the same scene with
the virtual cameras placed slightly apart from each other displayed in front of your eyes
will give the impression of depth. Displaying such a thing is tough, but not impossible.)
Given those facts, maybe it's not a bad idea for companies to be trying their hands at 3D,
even if 2D does have certain aesthetic advantages.
News for the oppressed Canadian masses |
Re: Canadian shipping woes Just an update for readers, it seems as
though the Canadian game problem is a bit more serious than first believed. It seems that
of the companies which agreed to the Quebec proposal, none have decided to do so with
enthusiasm. Legend of Mana was shipped to Canadian distributors without the necessary
french instructions - these were shipped later (on the US release date for LoM, to be
exact).
Its expected that Legend of Mana will be released before the end of the month, while
Vagrant Story is predicted to arrive as early as June 19th.
Re: 2D Games
>What concrete, rational argument could you make to a development house CEO, his
eyes locked on the 3D promised land, that would >make him want to make a
"true" sequel to Chrono Trigger or Metroid?
Any concrete rational argument has to show, business speaking, how well such a title
would do for its given platform. Numbers and other business stuff thats not good for the
squeamish, folks! Its the sort of thing I lobby a lot for, though.
Richard "KZ" Knight |
Once more, KZ brings us news of the Canadian gaming crisis, and we are thankful. Our
hearts go out to our deprived northern brethren.
Actually, all I was going for was some reason why going 2D (which is, these days, a
relatively unusual thing in the gaming world) is worth doing. That doesn't have to involve
numbers, in fact I'd be surprised if that's what Square's programmers were thinking when
they decided on the graphical style of SF2. In that case the animation of the world and
the characters increased the power of what was ultimately a very character driven story.
But not all games would benefit from such a thing, so I wanna hear some reasons why it
might make sense to do other types of games in 2D.
Secular humanists are taking over the world! |
Is it just me, or is religion always perceived as either evil or false in
every game that used it. Vagrant Story, Xenogears, and Koudelka are good examples, but
more to the point, can you think of one game that presents religion as a benign and
meaningful thing? The religions in the three games I've mentioned most resemble
Christianity (which is why they are oft times mischaracterized as satires of Christianity
- which they are not) which isn't exactly popular in Japan. That may explain why
Christianity is so negatively portrayed, but not why religion in general is. After all,
doesn't Taoism have a strong following in Japan? Any thoughts?
~Israfel~ |
While you could argue that Xenogears draws a distinction between "good"
religions and "bad" religions, the amount of apparently anti-religious stories
and symbols in recent RPGs does seem excessive as of late. It's not hard to see why this
is the case - Japan is a mixture of Buddhism, Shinto and a small bit of Christianity, but
none of them seem to be taken with the same seriousness that many Americans take
Christianity. Thus, it's probably no more difficult for the Japanese to take creative
liberties with our sacred cows than it is for us to turn other mythologies into our pop
entertainment. (See The Mighty Thor or Disney's Hercules as examples, though admittedly
neither of those mythologies are currently viable.)
I'd also prefer to see a little more rounded portrayal of religion, but one of the
things that a lot of people like about RPGs is their "Japanese-ness", which
would be compromised when you start changing the chosen content of the stories. It's a
case of bad-with-the-good, I think.
The vast corporate machine speaks |
Chris: I work for a nationwide retailer (Babbage's) and we recently
instituted a policy stating we HAVE to pay attention to the ESRB ratings. Now, I'm a firm
believer that the parent should be watching their kid, but I can understand why we got
this policy.
At one point, our store had a mother call us saying that we'd sold her 10 yr. old child
something that was as bad as drugs and guns. We'd sold him House of the Dead
2....apparently, his parents felt that we would make a good babysitting place while they
were in the Bombay Company, and so it was OK that he was wandering about the mall with $55
in his pocket while his parents were there. /rant
Back to the topic at hand, by the same token, there are games that 8 year olds
shouldn't be allowed to play--Nightmare Creatures II is one that comes to mind. If a game
has an M rating, we now have the right to ask for ID--and it's company policy that we do,
if a person looks too young.
So while it's true that stores used to not pay attention to the ratings, more and more
are beginning to, if only to keep parents off our backs when little Timmy buys something
he shouldn't--if the parents buy him Die Hard Trilogy 2, then they can't blame us for it
being violent, we point out the ratings (as a personal policy) when a parent buys a game.
Jinnai |
We don't generally hear from the folks who sell us our games, though we send a fair
amount of abuse their way. So it's only fair for salespeople like Jinnai to get their say.
The basic question here is if gamers' freedom to play games is being overly compromised
by measures designed to stop incidents like the one mentioned above. While there are those
who'd argue that ratings should be abolished and it should be entirely up to the parent to
monitor content, I'm thinking that the best alternative would be an accurate ratings
system enforced across the board. If Jinnai and company keep their end of the bargain, it
only falls to the ESRB to get their act together.
...but fat chance of that happening |
If sugestive themes means any hint of a relationship why the hell did MGS
for gameboy get an E rating. I mean really it is a T rated game bordering on an M. Then
again has ANY gameboy game been given anything but a E or a K-A? I smell something fishy
here. --
BeerGoggles_FromMARS
Daniel Kaszor |
Someone also pointed out that E-rated Wild Arms 2 contained some questionable content,
whereas E-rated Grandia got things pulled out that shouldn't have made much of a
difference, like alcohol. It's clear things need improving, but it's probably out of our
hands for now.
Yeah, I'm no graphics either |
Okay, I'm no graphics or anything, I've been playing RPGs since the Super
Nintendo (and guess what, I'm a girl too!). With that in mind, when I first bought Legend
of Mana I didn't like the way it looked. It just seemed... odd compared to all the other
games I've been playing in the last year. Domina just looked too cartoony (Yeah, yeah,
hurry up and beat Vagrant Story that way you can understand what I'm talking about) but
once I went into the Jungle, I had changed my mind. The detail is just astounding; The
graphics aren't odd but quirky and it gives it an original feel in sometimes stagnant
field. I still think the towns are just okay, but the dungeons are incredible. I prefer to
be in them than in town, which is the exact opposite of what I felt with FF8. Come on,
someone back me up here! The game just captures you, even if it doesn't seem to have a
point... I love the game, and I have played it over 20 hours in two days (and I have
finals now!) Malika |
It's probably worth noting that old school or no, hard core or no, people seem to get
more emotionally involved with games on the appearance level when they're 2D, as Malika
proves. I still say someone needs to develop a 3D style that has the same character as 2D
animation can have, and although FF9 looks like it might be a step forward, I don't think
we're there yet.
Depth is overrated |
"If you're a hard core fan, are there any visual tricks can do in 3D
to give you that old school 2D feeling, or is only the real thing acceptable?" Close
one eye... Oh, wait, the TV's flat anyway.
-Nova, the SG
P.S. Now, if you weren't talking about video games...just imagine the implications of
the above question on real life. |
I have pretty poor eyesight, so my depth perception's shot anyway. Still, most people
would probably miss having more than just height and width, so let's all keep both eyes
open for the moment.
Closing Comments:
This is the moment you've all been waiting for - the moment I finish VS and the debate
about the significance of the ending can begin! Let's hear your thoughts on the matter,
whatever they may be. Later.
-Chris Jones, about to get Manafied |
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